Sam Morshead looks at the impact of social media on footballers’ lives and asks: Is enough really being done to educate and protect today’s sporting elite in the big, bad online world?

The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald: "If you’re wearing a shinpad bigger than the other I don’t know why you’d want to share that. All it does is block out the art of  conversation." - Town boss Mark Cooper "If you’re wearing a shinpad bigger than the other I don’t know why you’d want to share that. All it does is block out the art of conversation." - Town boss Mark Cooper

SOCIAL media has revolutionised the way footballers interact with the general public but, in making itself more accessible to fans, has the sport got lost trying to protect itself from a malaise of name-calling, self-indulgence and self-sensationalism?

And has it affected the performance of the stars caught up in it?

Tomorrow, Twitter turns eight years old. In less than half the time Arsene Wenger has been in charge of Arsenal the micro-blogging site has completely changed the way supporters consume information, relay opinions and generally bicker amongst themselves, with opposing fans and hyper-sensitive players.

No longer is the media the font of all knowledge. Broadcasters and broadsheets, chat shows and tabloids all use the 140-characters-or-less musings of the sport’s leading lights to line their inner pages and empty minutes. For wide-eyed enthusiasts and cold-hearted trolls, Twitter is a wonderful tool; a free pass, albeit momentarily, into the world of a multi-millionaire footballer.

In a digital age, social networking sites offer the chance to interact one-on-one with football’s super-humans, but the direct access that Twitter - and other social networking sites - create can corrupt as much as it can inspire. It can involve players in conversations they needn’t have previously had, in some cases it can become so addictive that their concentration spans are affected and their mental well-being adversely influenced.

Indeed, a poll published by Kick It Out on Tuesday revealed that 91 per cent of footballers surveyed feel social media has led to an increase in them receiving discriminatory abuse and that percentage therefore feel it needs to be better policed.

Yet the concerns most within football seem to have revolve around defending its members from the consequences their words can have on other people, rather than themselves.

Swindon Town’s squad are as heavily involved in social networking as any other. The majority of the Robins’ first team boast their own Twitter profile, many have Instagram accounts and, as such, the club has a policy its players have to abide by.

Under new ownership, Town are still in the process of formally detailing how, what and when its players can tweet, but manager Mark Cooper told the Advertiser the basics.

“They’re not allowed to discuss what’s going on at the club, really,” he said. “If they’re tweeting that they’re going out with their girlfriend that’s fine but if they’re tweeting they’re doing something to do with Swindon that’s not allowed.”

The Professional Footballers’ Association outline a common-sense approach.

“Issues relating to football are often of interest to the public. It is important therefore to recognise that everything you say may be obtained and published by the media and may be misreported or misinterpreted, even if you had intended the content to be uncontroversial,” their guidelines, delivered to players, read.

The Football Association take a similar stance, again focusing on players’ propensities to get themselves in trouble on social media by publishing opinions and information they really shouldn’t.

“Participants should be aware that comments made on such sites may be considered public comment, and that further to FA Rule E3, any comments which are deemed improper, bring the game into disrepute, or are threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting may lead to disciplinary action,” the FA’s guidelines state.

“Comments which are personal in nature or could be construed as offensive, use foul language or contain direct or indirect threats aimed at other participants are likely to be considered improper.”

Premier League clubs adopt these tactics, too. Former Advertiser chief sports writer Anthony Marshall now works in the Newcastle United media department. The club issue their own guidelines to the players at the start of each season and the squad attends a social media presentation to boot.

“In my opinion, our approach is quite laid back,” said Marshall. “Apart from the guidelines, the players are pretty much left to their own devices on Twitter and only if and when they fall out of line do we pick them up on it.

“We try to treat them like adults in the belief that they will, in turn, act responsibly. And it generally seems to work, obviously with the odd exception.

“We have had very few problems and the players who currently use it either avoid talking about football altogether, or simply put a message out to fans after the game.”

But are all three institutions missing the point?

The media are bound to latch onto a story someone else has already published, it’s a common practise.

When something is in the public domain it is considered fair game.

What’s often neglected – away from the controversy of yet another irrelevant and totally unnecessary Twitter spat– is how a constant online presence can affect footballers mentally.

A prime example in recent years is the story of Marvin Sordell – an England Under 21 international whose form dipped, it was claimed, because of an addiction to social media.

“It could be bordering on an obsession with Twitter and Facebook and all the things that go on with these kids,” Sordell’s manager at Bolton, Dougie Freedman, told The Independent. “We are trying to work with him – by taking his phone off him. We have just got to get him settled down and help him with some of the off-the-field antics.”

Cooper, too, is baffled by the craze and sees it as a distraction for his players in their preparation for crucial League One matches.

“It does get into their lives. I’m sure young players spend far too much time on that rather than preparing for games and applying themselves properly,” he said.

When asked whether players’ concentration is worse now than it was 20 or 30 years ago, Cooper said: “One hundred per cent. I don’t think you can change it. I think you have to try to educate the group the best you can, try to show them the way on the training pitch.

“You’re always going to have Facebook, you’re always going to have Twitter, Instagram - I’ve heard about that one, Snapchat, Tinder.”

Sports psychologist Victor Thompson feels it is not just social media but technology in general that has limited a human’s capacity for memory and concentration.

“Telephones remember the numbers for you, we’ve got more ability to hold more information not in our heads but in mobile devices,” he said. “I don’t think it’s just social media that would do that, I think it’s technology that helps in giving us less of a need for remembering stuff.

“That used to be a highly valued skill but nowadays it’s less so. In the past if you had one thing to read you’d have the newspaper and you’d focus on that. Now you can focus on thousands if not millions of different things if you’re online.”

Thompson suggests that social media can have a huge impact, often negative, on players who find it hard to filter out the bundles of negative criticism – much of it often exaggerated and abusive.

“I’ve worked with footballers who have had real difficulty after a match not looking up what people have said about them before the newspapers come out,” he said.

“It’s important how they’re evaluated and for most players there is a temptation to have a look. For others who are more thick skinned or don’t really care as much about what other people think they wouldn’t read these things and wouldn’t be further affected by the negative comments.

“It can be difficult if you are prone to be affected by other people’s opinions - and we all are to some degree, some more than others - then reading it can be a blow to your confidence and can make you more fearful of going out there again.

“If there are more sources for people to give you a ribbing or more sources for you to get down on yourself then that’s a risk. It’s playing with fire reading that stuff.”

Footballers are perhaps the most trolled of any industry’s workforce, both on Twitter and other online networking sites. They’re easy targets. Many are fragile, caught up quite rightly in their own performances and, like most of us, desperate for positive attention.

However, the main focus of directives issued to them by those entrusted with a duty of care is on preventing the media getting hold of information, stopping arguments going public, avoiding embarrassing situations. It appears that the other, hugely dangerous side of Twitter – a player’s psychological state – is neglected in a fog of paranoia and mistrust.

“It can work each way. If it’s having a negative impact on you and preventing you from bouncing back from performances and playing on your mind it’s probably something to interpret differently or limit your contact with that media,” said Thompson.

“There have been players that I’ve seen that I’d tell to look at it less if it’s having a big impact, but that’s easier said than done.

“If you’re very good at looking for the good and getting rid of the bad then that’s brilliant but most of us aren’t so good at that, and the bad hurts and has an impact on us.”

So, what good does Twitter do in the world of football? Plenty, it would appear, but at what cost?

When a player’s ability to perform at his highest levels is threatened by an injury, a bereavement, a run in with the law or the like, a club will act accordingly to coax him through a difficult time. When it comes to social media, they are simply left to their own devices. Unless, of course, the club’s good name could come into disrepute.

“I don’t get it. I don’t see the point,” said Cooper. “If you want to tweet someone that you’ve got two Shredded Wheat instead of three, I just don’t get it. If you’re wearing one shinpad bigger than the other I don’t know why you’d want to share that at all.

“All it does is block out the art of conversation. People don’t talk to each other like they used to, they’d rather go on Twitter and say it. That’s the way society is going but we’d do well to change it.”

Thompson is less critical but advises use with caution.

“I think it’s a good thing,” he said. “Why not engage with the fans? Why not have that relationship? But don’t do it when the emotions are high and consider that what you write might be read by anyone and used at any point in time.”

Like Thompson mentions, that is easier said than done.

Twitter itself is a valuable tool in promoting the game but do clubs do enough to promote its healthy use among their own employees? #imnotsosure

Comments (50)

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7:36am Thu 20 Mar 14

Since 1950 says...

It's an anti-social media Sam. You only have to read some of the slanging matches on these comments pages.
The trouble is it becomes an extension of people's lives. For some it becomes their life. For those house bound for whatever reason it can enhance their lives. For those addicted it can be as destructive.
Any football news today?
It's an anti-social media Sam. You only have to read some of the slanging matches on these comments pages. The trouble is it becomes an extension of people's lives. For some it becomes their life. For those house bound for whatever reason it can enhance their lives. For those addicted it can be as destructive. Any football news today? Since 1950
  • Score: 11

7:57am Thu 20 Mar 14

STFConyourpitch says...

Sports News articles in the recent times on the adver have really been disappointing to see. I can understand the occasional article that sam or any writer may feel like writing like this one but all I see now these days in useless articles some repeating the same information.

I'm not complaining but this is what I feel.
Sports News articles in the recent times on the adver have really been disappointing to see. I can understand the occasional article that sam or any writer may feel like writing like this one but all I see now these days in useless articles some repeating the same information. I'm not complaining but this is what I feel. STFConyourpitch
  • Score: 2

8:58am Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Not interested in a massive puffy social media article either and feel it is just Sam defending his own Twitter use
.
Twitter has its place but don't think it should be the main source as it sometimes appears to be for Sam to release info
.
So as Twitter means the Adver can't get access to the club I thought I put the interview with Lee power by Simon Hart in the Independent today on here for discussion as this is much more interesting
.
Also Harley, Bradley and co should really take note of some of the things rasied in it!!!!!
.
"Modern English football offers a fair few examples of club owners new to the game – and indeed to this country – who end up losing their way in "the jungle", as Lee Power calls it
.
Power, by contrast, could hardly be accused of not knowing the terrain. The chairman and owner of League One side Swindon Town is a man who once cleaned Andy Townsend's boots as a Norwich City apprentice, before embarking on a career that took in nine different Football League clubs, another couple in Scotland and Under-21 caps with the Republic of Ireland. "I have been fortunate enough – or unfortunate enough – to play in every league in England and the top two in Scotland," he tells The Independent. And he has already used his contacts to create one of the Football League's more interesting recruitment models
.
As a former house-mate of Tim Sherwood during their Norwich days – "he was best man at my wedding" – Power, 41, has established a now well-trodden trail from White Hart Lane to the County Ground, with Swindon's squad featuring three players loaned from Tottenham – Grant Hall, Ryan Mason and Alex Pritchard – and another three signed permanently in Australian international Massimo Luongo, Jack Barthram and Nathan Byrne
.
"All the alarm bells went ringing around football that all of a sudden we'd become a feeder club but that wasn't the case. Tim is a friend of mine," says Power. As if to prove the point, he is now discussing a similar arrangement with another, unnamed top-flight club. "I have been in talks with a chairman of a Premier League team for the last two months," he explains
.
Power, with his Peckham roots and Del Boy accent, is by his own admission a ducker and diver, but he is adamant Swindon would "never" become a feeder club. "We'll always have our own identity. What we will do is borrow and steal what we can off the big boys, but it won't necessarily be one club. We average over 8,000 people every week and want to stand on our own two feet
.
"Using the loan market is the only way forward because just can't afford the wages out there. They have been down that route with Andrew Black when he funded it to the tune of £11m–£12m in a three-year period. He didn't leave any debt but we still inherited contracts that were phenomenal. There were people on nearly £14,000 a week, which was ridiculous – obviously, that was the manager. It just doesn't work."
.
Power became involved last year as part of a consortium led by Jed McCrory, which took over from Black, who had funded Swindon's rise out of League Two under Paolo Di Canio. Power's initial £1.2m investment – a sum now standing at £2m – helped lift a transfer embargo and in December the erstwhile director of football took outright control
.
His path from pitch to boardroom began with a spell as an agent which gave him "an understanding of the money side". He had a brief involvement at board level at Luton Town and Rushden & Diamonds, and in between an 18-month stint as Cambridge United chairman. "That was nice for me to cut my teeth at Conference level."
.
Power's experience of setting up Cre8 Publishing, producing match programmes, helped him "know a lot of the commercial people in football" but also led to negative headlines after the company was liquidated. "They said I left owing football clubs millions of pounds but I had already sold the company," he counters, pointing to the fact one of the reported creditors was Tottenham. "I am sure they wouldn't be loaning me players if I owed them the mentioned."
.
The Geneva-based Power, who co-owns the weekly Racing Plus newspaper, has ruffled a few feathers in Wiltshire. A frosty relationship with the Swindon Advertiser worsened when, before Swindon faced Peterborough in January, its reporter tweeted news of Nile Ranger's involvement before the line-ups were named. "Peterborough changed their team," he says.
.
Yet he promises he is in it for the long haul and, under manager Mark Cooper, Swindon lie ninth in League One. "Everyone thought we'd be relegated but we've been sat outside the play-offs all year. With the budget in place and contacts I've got, I want a team that is going to be competitive. There is another £5m worth of revenue if we get to the Championship and it makes a huge difference. That is what we are striving for, but we are not going to put the club at risk at the same time."
Not interested in a massive puffy social media article either and feel it is just Sam defending his own Twitter use . Twitter has its place but don't think it should be the main source as it sometimes appears to be for Sam to release info . So as Twitter means the Adver can't get access to the club I thought I put the interview with Lee power by Simon Hart in the Independent today on here for discussion as this is much more interesting . Also Harley, Bradley and co should really take note of some of the things rasied in it!!!!! . "Modern English football offers a fair few examples of club owners new to the game – and indeed to this country – who end up losing their way in "the jungle", as Lee Power calls it . Power, by contrast, could hardly be accused of not knowing the terrain. The chairman and owner of League One side Swindon Town is a man who once cleaned Andy Townsend's boots as a Norwich City apprentice, before embarking on a career that took in nine different Football League clubs, another couple in Scotland and Under-21 caps with the Republic of Ireland. "I have been fortunate enough – or unfortunate enough – to play in every league in England and the top two in Scotland," he tells The Independent. And he has already used his contacts to create one of the Football League's more interesting recruitment models . As a former house-mate of Tim Sherwood during their Norwich days – "he was best man at my wedding" – Power, 41, has established a now well-trodden trail from White Hart Lane to the County Ground, with Swindon's squad featuring three players loaned from Tottenham – Grant Hall, Ryan Mason and Alex Pritchard – and another three signed permanently in Australian international Massimo Luongo, Jack Barthram and Nathan Byrne . "All the alarm bells went ringing around football that all of a sudden we'd become a feeder club but that wasn't the case. Tim is a friend of mine," says Power. As if to prove the point, he is now discussing a similar arrangement with another, unnamed top-flight club. "I have been in talks with a chairman of a Premier League team for the last two months," he explains . Power, with his Peckham roots and Del Boy accent, is by his own admission a ducker and diver, but he is adamant Swindon would "never" become a feeder club. "We'll always have our own identity. What we will do is borrow and steal what we can off the big boys, but it won't necessarily be one club. We average over 8,000 people every week and want to stand on our own two feet . "Using the loan market is the only way forward because [the club] just can't afford the wages out there. They have been down that route with [former owner] Andrew Black when he funded it to the tune of £11m–£12m in a three-year period. He didn't leave any debt but we still inherited contracts that were phenomenal. There were people on nearly £14,000 a week, which was ridiculous – obviously, that was the manager. It just doesn't work." . Power became involved last year as part of a consortium led by Jed McCrory, which took over from Black, who had funded Swindon's rise out of League Two under Paolo Di Canio. Power's initial £1.2m investment – a sum now standing at £2m – helped lift a transfer embargo and in December the erstwhile director of football took outright control . His path from pitch to boardroom began with a spell as an agent which gave him "an understanding of the money side". He had a brief involvement at board level at Luton Town and Rushden & Diamonds, and in between an 18-month stint as Cambridge United chairman. "That was nice for me to cut my teeth at Conference level." . Power's experience of setting up Cre8 Publishing, producing match programmes, helped him "know a lot of the commercial people in football" but also led to negative headlines after the company was liquidated. "They said I left owing football clubs millions of pounds but I had already sold the company," he counters, pointing to the fact one of the reported creditors was Tottenham. "I am sure they wouldn't be loaning me players if I owed them the [sums] mentioned." . The Geneva-based Power, who co-owns the weekly Racing Plus newspaper, has ruffled a few feathers in Wiltshire. A frosty relationship with the Swindon Advertiser worsened when, before Swindon faced Peterborough in January, its reporter tweeted news of Nile Ranger's involvement before the line-ups were named. "Peterborough changed their team," he says. . Yet he promises he is in it for the long haul and, under manager Mark Cooper, Swindon lie ninth in League One. "Everyone thought we'd be relegated but we've been sat outside the play-offs all year. With the budget in place and contacts I've got, I want a team that is going to be competitive. There is another £5m worth of revenue if we get to the Championship and it makes a huge difference. That is what we are striving for, but we are not going to put the club at risk at the same time." London Red
  • Score: 10

9:32am Thu 20 Mar 14

the don69 says...

London Red wrote:
Not interested in a massive puffy social media article either and feel it is just Sam defending his own Twitter use
.
Twitter has its place but don't think it should be the main source as it sometimes appears to be for Sam to release info
.
So as Twitter means the Adver can't get access to the club I thought I put the interview with Lee power by Simon Hart in the Independent today on here for discussion as this is much more interesting
.
Also Harley, Bradley and co should really take note of some of the things rasied in it!!!!!
.
"Modern English football offers a fair few examples of club owners new to the game – and indeed to this country – who end up losing their way in "the jungle", as Lee Power calls it
.
Power, by contrast, could hardly be accused of not knowing the terrain. The chairman and owner of League One side Swindon Town is a man who once cleaned Andy Townsend's boots as a Norwich City apprentice, before embarking on a career that took in nine different Football League clubs, another couple in Scotland and Under-21 caps with the Republic of Ireland. "I have been fortunate enough – or unfortunate enough – to play in every league in England and the top two in Scotland," he tells The Independent. And he has already used his contacts to create one of the Football League's more interesting recruitment models
.
As a former house-mate of Tim Sherwood during their Norwich days – "he was best man at my wedding" – Power, 41, has established a now well-trodden trail from White Hart Lane to the County Ground, with Swindon's squad featuring three players loaned from Tottenham – Grant Hall, Ryan Mason and Alex Pritchard – and another three signed permanently in Australian international Massimo Luongo, Jack Barthram and Nathan Byrne
.
"All the alarm bells went ringing around football that all of a sudden we'd become a feeder club but that wasn't the case. Tim is a friend of mine," says Power. As if to prove the point, he is now discussing a similar arrangement with another, unnamed top-flight club. "I have been in talks with a chairman of a Premier League team for the last two months," he explains
.
Power, with his Peckham roots and Del Boy accent, is by his own admission a ducker and diver, but he is adamant Swindon would "never" become a feeder club. "We'll always have our own identity. What we will do is borrow and steal what we can off the big boys, but it won't necessarily be one club. We average over 8,000 people every week and want to stand on our own two feet
.
"Using the loan market is the only way forward because just can't afford the wages out there. They have been down that route with Andrew Black when he funded it to the tune of £11m–£12m in a three-year period. He didn't leave any debt but we still inherited contracts that were phenomenal. There were people on nearly £14,000 a week, which was ridiculous – obviously, that was the manager. It just doesn't work."
.
Power became involved last year as part of a consortium led by Jed McCrory, which took over from Black, who had funded Swindon's rise out of League Two under Paolo Di Canio. Power's initial £1.2m investment – a sum now standing at £2m – helped lift a transfer embargo and in December the erstwhile director of football took outright control
.
His path from pitch to boardroom began with a spell as an agent which gave him "an understanding of the money side". He had a brief involvement at board level at Luton Town and Rushden & Diamonds, and in between an 18-month stint as Cambridge United chairman. "That was nice for me to cut my teeth at Conference level."
.
Power's experience of setting up Cre8 Publishing, producing match programmes, helped him "know a lot of the commercial people in football" but also led to negative headlines after the company was liquidated. "They said I left owing football clubs millions of pounds but I had already sold the company," he counters, pointing to the fact one of the reported creditors was Tottenham. "I am sure they wouldn't be loaning me players if I owed them the mentioned."
.
The Geneva-based Power, who co-owns the weekly Racing Plus newspaper, has ruffled a few feathers in Wiltshire. A frosty relationship with the Swindon Advertiser worsened when, before Swindon faced Peterborough in January, its reporter tweeted news of Nile Ranger's involvement before the line-ups were named. "Peterborough changed their team," he says.
.
Yet he promises he is in it for the long haul and, under manager Mark Cooper, Swindon lie ninth in League One. "Everyone thought we'd be relegated but we've been sat outside the play-offs all year. With the budget in place and contacts I've got, I want a team that is going to be competitive. There is another £5m worth of revenue if we get to the Championship and it makes a huge difference. That is what we are striving for, but we are not going to put the club at risk at the same time."
£14,000 a week who the hell was being paid that amount???? no wonder Black got rid of our club! they were taking him for a mug! Wray and his cheif excec must have been barmey to have allowed such amounts to be paid! and those calling for Coops head are fools he's done a good job with the tools he's got to work with this season! give him a break,someone just said too me it must have been PDC on fourteen grand a week? anyone know for sure??? come on Sam job for you do some digging!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Not interested in a massive puffy social media article either and feel it is just Sam defending his own Twitter use . Twitter has its place but don't think it should be the main source as it sometimes appears to be for Sam to release info . So as Twitter means the Adver can't get access to the club I thought I put the interview with Lee power by Simon Hart in the Independent today on here for discussion as this is much more interesting . Also Harley, Bradley and co should really take note of some of the things rasied in it!!!!! . "Modern English football offers a fair few examples of club owners new to the game – and indeed to this country – who end up losing their way in "the jungle", as Lee Power calls it . Power, by contrast, could hardly be accused of not knowing the terrain. The chairman and owner of League One side Swindon Town is a man who once cleaned Andy Townsend's boots as a Norwich City apprentice, before embarking on a career that took in nine different Football League clubs, another couple in Scotland and Under-21 caps with the Republic of Ireland. "I have been fortunate enough – or unfortunate enough – to play in every league in England and the top two in Scotland," he tells The Independent. And he has already used his contacts to create one of the Football League's more interesting recruitment models . As a former house-mate of Tim Sherwood during their Norwich days – "he was best man at my wedding" – Power, 41, has established a now well-trodden trail from White Hart Lane to the County Ground, with Swindon's squad featuring three players loaned from Tottenham – Grant Hall, Ryan Mason and Alex Pritchard – and another three signed permanently in Australian international Massimo Luongo, Jack Barthram and Nathan Byrne . "All the alarm bells went ringing around football that all of a sudden we'd become a feeder club but that wasn't the case. Tim is a friend of mine," says Power. As if to prove the point, he is now discussing a similar arrangement with another, unnamed top-flight club. "I have been in talks with a chairman of a Premier League team for the last two months," he explains . Power, with his Peckham roots and Del Boy accent, is by his own admission a ducker and diver, but he is adamant Swindon would "never" become a feeder club. "We'll always have our own identity. What we will do is borrow and steal what we can off the big boys, but it won't necessarily be one club. We average over 8,000 people every week and want to stand on our own two feet . "Using the loan market is the only way forward because [the club] just can't afford the wages out there. They have been down that route with [former owner] Andrew Black when he funded it to the tune of £11m–£12m in a three-year period. He didn't leave any debt but we still inherited contracts that were phenomenal. There were people on nearly £14,000 a week, which was ridiculous – obviously, that was the manager. It just doesn't work." . Power became involved last year as part of a consortium led by Jed McCrory, which took over from Black, who had funded Swindon's rise out of League Two under Paolo Di Canio. Power's initial £1.2m investment – a sum now standing at £2m – helped lift a transfer embargo and in December the erstwhile director of football took outright control . His path from pitch to boardroom began with a spell as an agent which gave him "an understanding of the money side". He had a brief involvement at board level at Luton Town and Rushden & Diamonds, and in between an 18-month stint as Cambridge United chairman. "That was nice for me to cut my teeth at Conference level." . Power's experience of setting up Cre8 Publishing, producing match programmes, helped him "know a lot of the commercial people in football" but also led to negative headlines after the company was liquidated. "They said I left owing football clubs millions of pounds but I had already sold the company," he counters, pointing to the fact one of the reported creditors was Tottenham. "I am sure they wouldn't be loaning me players if I owed them the [sums] mentioned." . The Geneva-based Power, who co-owns the weekly Racing Plus newspaper, has ruffled a few feathers in Wiltshire. A frosty relationship with the Swindon Advertiser worsened when, before Swindon faced Peterborough in January, its reporter tweeted news of Nile Ranger's involvement before the line-ups were named. "Peterborough changed their team," he says. . Yet he promises he is in it for the long haul and, under manager Mark Cooper, Swindon lie ninth in League One. "Everyone thought we'd be relegated but we've been sat outside the play-offs all year. With the budget in place and contacts I've got, I want a team that is going to be competitive. There is another £5m worth of revenue if we get to the Championship and it makes a huge difference. That is what we are striving for, but we are not going to put the club at risk at the same time."[/p][/quote]£14,000 a week who the hell was being paid that amount???? no wonder Black got rid of our club! they were taking him for a mug! Wray and his cheif excec must have been barmey to have allowed such amounts to be paid! and those calling for Coops head are fools he's done a good job with the tools he's got to work with this season! give him a break,someone just said too me it must have been PDC on fourteen grand a week? anyone know for sure??? come on Sam job for you do some digging!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! the don69
  • Score: 25

9:38am Thu 20 Mar 14

stfc2012 says...

It's a modern way of giving and receiving news. You choose what you follow in the same way as you choose which paper to read. Let people express themselves - you don't have to read it. Follow people with not a lot to say and you will get rubbish. Footballers' twitter feeds generally reflect themselves and are often boring and the same as each other. Follow a good news site and you have good info at your fingertips. People stay in contact with people they would possibly not see often. Nothing wrong with staying in touch via this method. It's not always possible to talk so why not update via social media? Conversations in real life can be boring - so why don't we try and stop that? It's all about who you follow and connect with that determines what you get out of it - same in real life. It's a choice you can make or not. Jed has the most boring twitter so I don't follow - simple. Sky news is good and provides me with fast info on current affairs. Social media promotes conversation and debate and with it comes differing opinions, sensibles and idiotic. It's here to stay so stop following illiterate football people and dumb celebs and embrace it as a way to find out about things and people you do care about and that way it will be positive. Sam is most likely finding other areas to write about because 1. He thinks outside the box. 2. STFC are treating him like a mug and trying to make things difficult for him - it seems all since Power took control.
It's a modern way of giving and receiving news. You choose what you follow in the same way as you choose which paper to read. Let people express themselves - you don't have to read it. Follow people with not a lot to say and you will get rubbish. Footballers' twitter feeds generally reflect themselves and are often boring and the same as each other. Follow a good news site and you have good info at your fingertips. People stay in contact with people they would possibly not see often. Nothing wrong with staying in touch via this method. It's not always possible to talk so why not update via social media? Conversations in real life can be boring - so why don't we try and stop that? It's all about who you follow and connect with that determines what you get out of it - same in real life. It's a choice you can make or not. Jed has the most boring twitter so I don't follow - simple. Sky news is good and provides me with fast info on current affairs. Social media promotes conversation and debate and with it comes differing opinions, sensibles and idiotic. It's here to stay so stop following illiterate football people and dumb celebs and embrace it as a way to find out about things and people you do care about and that way it will be positive. Sam is most likely finding other areas to write about because 1. He thinks outside the box. 2. STFC are treating him like a mug and trying to make things difficult for him - it seems all since Power took control. stfc2012
  • Score: 0

9:42am Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

the don69 wrote:
London Red wrote:
Not interested in a massive puffy social media article either and feel it is just Sam defending his own Twitter use
.
Twitter has its place but don't think it should be the main source as it sometimes appears to be for Sam to release info
.
So as Twitter means the Adver can't get access to the club I thought I put the interview with Lee power by Simon Hart in the Independent today on here for discussion as this is much more interesting
.
Also Harley, Bradley and co should really take note of some of the things rasied in it!!!!!
.
"Modern English football offers a fair few examples of club owners new to the game – and indeed to this country – who end up losing their way in "the jungle", as Lee Power calls it
.
Power, by contrast, could hardly be accused of not knowing the terrain. The chairman and owner of League One side Swindon Town is a man who once cleaned Andy Townsend's boots as a Norwich City apprentice, before embarking on a career that took in nine different Football League clubs, another couple in Scotland and Under-21 caps with the Republic of Ireland. "I have been fortunate enough – or unfortunate enough – to play in every league in England and the top two in Scotland," he tells The Independent. And he has already used his contacts to create one of the Football League's more interesting recruitment models
.
As a former house-mate of Tim Sherwood during their Norwich days – "he was best man at my wedding" – Power, 41, has established a now well-trodden trail from White Hart Lane to the County Ground, with Swindon's squad featuring three players loaned from Tottenham – Grant Hall, Ryan Mason and Alex Pritchard – and another three signed permanently in Australian international Massimo Luongo, Jack Barthram and Nathan Byrne
.
"All the alarm bells went ringing around football that all of a sudden we'd become a feeder club but that wasn't the case. Tim is a friend of mine," says Power. As if to prove the point, he is now discussing a similar arrangement with another, unnamed top-flight club. "I have been in talks with a chairman of a Premier League team for the last two months," he explains
.
Power, with his Peckham roots and Del Boy accent, is by his own admission a ducker and diver, but he is adamant Swindon would "never" become a feeder club. "We'll always have our own identity. What we will do is borrow and steal what we can off the big boys, but it won't necessarily be one club. We average over 8,000 people every week and want to stand on our own two feet
.
"Using the loan market is the only way forward because just can't afford the wages out there. They have been down that route with Andrew Black when he funded it to the tune of £11m–£12m in a three-year period. He didn't leave any debt but we still inherited contracts that were phenomenal. There were people on nearly £14,000 a week, which was ridiculous – obviously, that was the manager. It just doesn't work."
.
Power became involved last year as part of a consortium led by Jed McCrory, which took over from Black, who had funded Swindon's rise out of League Two under Paolo Di Canio. Power's initial £1.2m investment – a sum now standing at £2m – helped lift a transfer embargo and in December the erstwhile director of football took outright control
.
His path from pitch to boardroom began with a spell as an agent which gave him "an understanding of the money side". He had a brief involvement at board level at Luton Town and Rushden & Diamonds, and in between an 18-month stint as Cambridge United chairman. "That was nice for me to cut my teeth at Conference level."
.
Power's experience of setting up Cre8 Publishing, producing match programmes, helped him "know a lot of the commercial people in football" but also led to negative headlines after the company was liquidated. "They said I left owing football clubs millions of pounds but I had already sold the company," he counters, pointing to the fact one of the reported creditors was Tottenham. "I am sure they wouldn't be loaning me players if I owed them the mentioned."
.
The Geneva-based Power, who co-owns the weekly Racing Plus newspaper, has ruffled a few feathers in Wiltshire. A frosty relationship with the Swindon Advertiser worsened when, before Swindon faced Peterborough in January, its reporter tweeted news of Nile Ranger's involvement before the line-ups were named. "Peterborough changed their team," he says.
.
Yet he promises he is in it for the long haul and, under manager Mark Cooper, Swindon lie ninth in League One. "Everyone thought we'd be relegated but we've been sat outside the play-offs all year. With the budget in place and contacts I've got, I want a team that is going to be competitive. There is another £5m worth of revenue if we get to the Championship and it makes a huge difference. That is what we are striving for, but we are not going to put the club at risk at the same time."
£14,000 a week who the hell was being paid that amount???? no wonder Black got rid of our club! they were taking him for a mug! Wray and his cheif excec must have been barmey to have allowed such amounts to be paid! and those calling for Coops head are fools he's done a good job with the tools he's got to work with this season! give him a break,someone just said too me it must have been PDC on fourteen grand a week? anyone know for sure??? come on Sam job for you do some digging!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!
Don, that seems to make sense. I heard that PDC was on £350k when he signed and after a year he demanded it was doubled to £700k, which is about the £14,000 per week.
[quote][p][bold]the don69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Not interested in a massive puffy social media article either and feel it is just Sam defending his own Twitter use . Twitter has its place but don't think it should be the main source as it sometimes appears to be for Sam to release info . So as Twitter means the Adver can't get access to the club I thought I put the interview with Lee power by Simon Hart in the Independent today on here for discussion as this is much more interesting . Also Harley, Bradley and co should really take note of some of the things rasied in it!!!!! . "Modern English football offers a fair few examples of club owners new to the game – and indeed to this country – who end up losing their way in "the jungle", as Lee Power calls it . Power, by contrast, could hardly be accused of not knowing the terrain. The chairman and owner of League One side Swindon Town is a man who once cleaned Andy Townsend's boots as a Norwich City apprentice, before embarking on a career that took in nine different Football League clubs, another couple in Scotland and Under-21 caps with the Republic of Ireland. "I have been fortunate enough – or unfortunate enough – to play in every league in England and the top two in Scotland," he tells The Independent. And he has already used his contacts to create one of the Football League's more interesting recruitment models . As a former house-mate of Tim Sherwood during their Norwich days – "he was best man at my wedding" – Power, 41, has established a now well-trodden trail from White Hart Lane to the County Ground, with Swindon's squad featuring three players loaned from Tottenham – Grant Hall, Ryan Mason and Alex Pritchard – and another three signed permanently in Australian international Massimo Luongo, Jack Barthram and Nathan Byrne . "All the alarm bells went ringing around football that all of a sudden we'd become a feeder club but that wasn't the case. Tim is a friend of mine," says Power. As if to prove the point, he is now discussing a similar arrangement with another, unnamed top-flight club. "I have been in talks with a chairman of a Premier League team for the last two months," he explains . Power, with his Peckham roots and Del Boy accent, is by his own admission a ducker and diver, but he is adamant Swindon would "never" become a feeder club. "We'll always have our own identity. What we will do is borrow and steal what we can off the big boys, but it won't necessarily be one club. We average over 8,000 people every week and want to stand on our own two feet . "Using the loan market is the only way forward because [the club] just can't afford the wages out there. They have been down that route with [former owner] Andrew Black when he funded it to the tune of £11m–£12m in a three-year period. He didn't leave any debt but we still inherited contracts that were phenomenal. There were people on nearly £14,000 a week, which was ridiculous – obviously, that was the manager. It just doesn't work." . Power became involved last year as part of a consortium led by Jed McCrory, which took over from Black, who had funded Swindon's rise out of League Two under Paolo Di Canio. Power's initial £1.2m investment – a sum now standing at £2m – helped lift a transfer embargo and in December the erstwhile director of football took outright control . His path from pitch to boardroom began with a spell as an agent which gave him "an understanding of the money side". He had a brief involvement at board level at Luton Town and Rushden & Diamonds, and in between an 18-month stint as Cambridge United chairman. "That was nice for me to cut my teeth at Conference level." . Power's experience of setting up Cre8 Publishing, producing match programmes, helped him "know a lot of the commercial people in football" but also led to negative headlines after the company was liquidated. "They said I left owing football clubs millions of pounds but I had already sold the company," he counters, pointing to the fact one of the reported creditors was Tottenham. "I am sure they wouldn't be loaning me players if I owed them the [sums] mentioned." . The Geneva-based Power, who co-owns the weekly Racing Plus newspaper, has ruffled a few feathers in Wiltshire. A frosty relationship with the Swindon Advertiser worsened when, before Swindon faced Peterborough in January, its reporter tweeted news of Nile Ranger's involvement before the line-ups were named. "Peterborough changed their team," he says. . Yet he promises he is in it for the long haul and, under manager Mark Cooper, Swindon lie ninth in League One. "Everyone thought we'd be relegated but we've been sat outside the play-offs all year. With the budget in place and contacts I've got, I want a team that is going to be competitive. There is another £5m worth of revenue if we get to the Championship and it makes a huge difference. That is what we are striving for, but we are not going to put the club at risk at the same time."[/p][/quote]£14,000 a week who the hell was being paid that amount???? no wonder Black got rid of our club! they were taking him for a mug! Wray and his cheif excec must have been barmey to have allowed such amounts to be paid! and those calling for Coops head are fools he's done a good job with the tools he's got to work with this season! give him a break,someone just said too me it must have been PDC on fourteen grand a week? anyone know for sure??? come on Sam job for you do some digging!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!![/p][/quote]Don, that seems to make sense. I heard that PDC was on £350k when he signed and after a year he demanded it was doubled to £700k, which is about the £14,000 per week. Oi Den!
  • Score: 9

10:04am Thu 20 Mar 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money.

On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough.

We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign.

what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not.

Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions.

I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top.

But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept. Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: -8

10:08am Thu 20 Mar 14

smirg kcab says...

Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us.

Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned.
What type of cheese are they?
Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us. Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned. What type of cheese are they? smirg kcab
  • Score: -16

10:14am Thu 20 Mar 14

Wilesy says...

Good article Sam.

PDC on £14k a week complete madness if true. The entire Yeovil playing squad was on £15k a week that season.

No wonder Black ran for the hills in the end, after being held to ransom initially then regularly criticised for not pandering to PDC's every whim afterwards....

But how weak of the people running the club to let it get to that. Amazed how so called shrewd businessmen Wray, Watkins, Black ran the club so badly and no surprise administration loomed once the money tap got turned off.

Anyone who disagrees try and justify leaving the club with ongoing liabilities of £14k a week for PDC as good business. Good job Black wrote the debt off, probably out of embarrassment once he found out!
Good article Sam. PDC on £14k a week complete madness if true. The entire Yeovil playing squad was on £15k a week that season. No wonder Black ran for the hills in the end, after being held to ransom initially then regularly criticised for not pandering to PDC's every whim afterwards.... But how weak of the people running the club to let it get to that. Amazed how so called shrewd businessmen Wray, Watkins, Black ran the club so badly and no surprise administration loomed once the money tap got turned off. Anyone who disagrees try and justify leaving the club with ongoing liabilities of £14k a week for PDC as good business. Good job Black wrote the debt off, probably out of embarrassment once he found out! Wilesy
  • Score: 18

10:59am Thu 20 Mar 14

stfc2012 says...

That 14k a week on PDC (allegedly) was set to get us in the Championship and harvest (as per Power's estimate) 5 million. You do the mathematics.
That 14k a week on PDC (allegedly) was set to get us in the Championship and harvest (as per Power's estimate) 5 million. You do the mathematics. stfc2012
  • Score: 4

11:05am Thu 20 Mar 14

The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier says...

It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation.

I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.
It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally. The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier
  • Score: 2

11:06am Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Who would you have played instead then?
.
Lets not forget until only a few weeks ago Troy was injured as was Oakley
.
So we only had Ward, Hall and Branco to choose from!
.
We have a tight budget - which is restricted by the 60% cap rather than Power "being tight" - so limited what we could do in the market
.
I also think Hall gets a lot of unfair criticism - he played in a lot of the games I have seen and in those he played excellent, good, average and poor
.
Come to think of it swap Hall's name for any other player and they would have played excellent, good, average and poor across them too!
.
Lets not forget this is his first season and he is bound to make mistakes - I remember Sean Morrison making horrendous mistakes - like gifting MK the winner when he came in 09/10 which help cost us automatic!
.
He is now captain of Reading having played in the Premiership!
.
I think a lot of Hall's poor perfromaces were simply down to the Partnership with Ward just didn't work well
.
Flint and Devera were turd together - but both looked good alongside Macca!
.
If we were to get Hall on a perm deal in the summer I wouldn't be dissappointed as I do think he could be a good CB at L1/Championship level with some experience
.
Now if he comes in as back up to Troy and Stephens next year with Branco and Oakly behind them that would not be a bad set of CB's to choose from!
.
Cooper has made mistakes - but so did PdC and pretty much every other manager before him too!
.
I just think we should judge him next season when we see how the squad shapes up once the legacy costs have gone and hopefully we are more complete and more balanced
.
Yes the 14k Managerial Cost has gone - but we know the £3k crew are still here (Thats only basic! - who knows what extras they have like Rooney going up to £8k!)
.
Lets judge him and Power once they reshuffled the pack and how we do then - we have only just fallen away from the PO hunt this year - and that was primarily down to injuries - ala Ranger and Mason!
.
So if we ar epretty close now - why cant we be next year?
.
Especially as the cuts are coming from players not involed - ie Navarro, Williams, Benson, Cox etc!
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Who would you have played instead then? . Lets not forget until only a few weeks ago Troy was injured as was Oakley . So we only had Ward, Hall and Branco to choose from! . We have a tight budget - which is restricted by the 60% cap rather than Power "being tight" - so limited what we could do in the market . I also think Hall gets a lot of unfair criticism - he played in a lot of the games I have seen and in those he played excellent, good, average and poor . Come to think of it swap Hall's name for any other player and they would have played excellent, good, average and poor across them too! . Lets not forget this is his first season and he is bound to make mistakes - I remember Sean Morrison making horrendous mistakes - like gifting MK the winner when he came in 09/10 which help cost us automatic! . He is now captain of Reading having played in the Premiership! . I think a lot of Hall's poor perfromaces were simply down to the Partnership with Ward just didn't work well . Flint and Devera were turd together - but both looked good alongside Macca! . If we were to get Hall on a perm deal in the summer I wouldn't be dissappointed as I do think he could be a good CB at L1/Championship level with some experience . Now if he comes in as back up to Troy and Stephens next year with Branco and Oakly behind them that would not be a bad set of CB's to choose from! . Cooper has made mistakes - but so did PdC and pretty much every other manager before him too! . I just think we should judge him next season when we see how the squad shapes up once the legacy costs have gone and hopefully we are more complete and more balanced . Yes the 14k Managerial Cost has gone - but we know the £3k crew are still here (Thats only basic! - who knows what extras they have like Rooney going up to £8k!) . Lets judge him and Power once they reshuffled the pack and how we do then - we have only just fallen away from the PO hunt this year - and that was primarily down to injuries - ala Ranger and Mason! . So if we ar epretty close now - why cant we be next year? . Especially as the cuts are coming from players not involed - ie Navarro, Williams, Benson, Cox etc! London Red
  • Score: 10

11:13am Thu 20 Mar 14

stfc2012 says...

Difference is Power will be gone with 5 years. Sam will still be supporting the club. Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone. At least Jed appeared to be interested in Swindon and the people. Power is just an arse. Everyone, including nearly all at the club know this. But all play ball to try and keep jobs - and who can blame them. Plenty have already had to take court action to gain what is rightly theirs from this regime. And it won't stop there. I wonder how Sangita's audit commentary is looking...
Difference is Power will be gone with 5 years. Sam will still be supporting the club. Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone. At least Jed appeared to be interested in Swindon and the people. Power is just an arse. Everyone, including nearly all at the club know this. But all play ball to try and keep jobs - and who can blame them. Plenty have already had to take court action to gain what is rightly theirs from this regime. And it won't stop there. I wonder how Sangita's audit commentary is looking... stfc2012
  • Score: -5

11:27am Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money.

On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough.

We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign.

what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not.

Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions.

I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top.

But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that.

You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process.

If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability?

I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain. Oi Den!
  • Score: 9

11:34am Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier wrote:
It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation.

I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.
Well said Marmite. Petty - even petulant - behaviour by our football club.
[quote][p][bold]The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier[/bold] wrote: It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.[/p][/quote]Well said Marmite. Petty - even petulant - behaviour by our football club. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

11:51am Thu 20 Mar 14

smirg kcab says...

smirg kcab wrote:
Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us.

Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned.
What type of cheese are they?
Minus 3 so I'm wrong then?
[quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us. Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned. What type of cheese are they?[/p][/quote]Minus 3 so I'm wrong then? smirg kcab
  • Score: -13

12:24pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Wilesy says...

stfc2012 wrote:
That 14k a week on PDC (allegedly) was set to get us in the Championship and harvest (as per Power's estimate) 5 million. You do the mathematics.
The mathematics tells me that it was a MASSIVE gamble, which yes could have worked out, but with PDC's volatility not a gamble a sensible businessman (or gambler) should have taken, and having taken the gamble should certainly not have sold the star player in January then bailed out knowing full well that administration was on the cards.

Also not just PDC wages the total was £2.4m over the sustainable figure, so combine that with however much over budget the L2 season the £5m would just have covered losses from the 2 seasons and that's before you then start talking increased wages for the Championship. Madness.
[quote][p][bold]stfc2012[/bold] wrote: That 14k a week on PDC (allegedly) was set to get us in the Championship and harvest (as per Power's estimate) 5 million. You do the mathematics.[/p][/quote]The mathematics tells me that it was a MASSIVE gamble, which yes could have worked out, but with PDC's volatility not a gamble a sensible businessman (or gambler) should have taken, and having taken the gamble should certainly not have sold the star player in January then bailed out knowing full well that administration was on the cards. Also not just PDC wages the total was £2.4m over the sustainable figure, so combine that with however much over budget the L2 season the £5m would just have covered losses from the 2 seasons and that's before you then start talking increased wages for the Championship. Madness. Wilesy
  • Score: 3

12:25pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Swindon1984 says...

stfc2012 wrote:
Difference is Power will be gone with 5 years. Sam will still be supporting the club. Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone. At least Jed appeared to be interested in Swindon and the people. Power is just an arse. Everyone, including nearly all at the club know this. But all play ball to try and keep jobs - and who can blame them. Plenty have already had to take court action to gain what is rightly theirs from this regime. And it won't stop there. I wonder how Sangita's audit commentary is looking...
"Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone."

Care to qualify that? I can see what you mean to a degree with media (i.e. the adver) but who else?
[quote][p][bold]stfc2012[/bold] wrote: Difference is Power will be gone with 5 years. Sam will still be supporting the club. Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone. At least Jed appeared to be interested in Swindon and the people. Power is just an arse. Everyone, including nearly all at the club know this. But all play ball to try and keep jobs - and who can blame them. Plenty have already had to take court action to gain what is rightly theirs from this regime. And it won't stop there. I wonder how Sangita's audit commentary is looking...[/p][/quote]"Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone." Care to qualify that? I can see what you mean to a degree with media (i.e. the adver) but who else? Swindon1984
  • Score: 6

12:47pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up.

if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy
,Jay leaving then you are deluded.

Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be.

Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this.

As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor.

I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year.

Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently.

we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching.

I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them.

As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently. Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: 2

1:28pm Thu 20 Mar 14

themoonraker says...

smirg kcab wrote:
smirg kcab wrote:
Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us.

Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned.
What type of cheese are they?
Minus 3 so I'm wrong then?
....Just repetitious and boring, you are best likened to a young rook ( all gobble and sh1t ).
[quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us. Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned. What type of cheese are they?[/p][/quote]Minus 3 so I'm wrong then?[/p][/quote]....Just repetitious and boring, you are best likened to a young rook ( all gobble and sh1t ). themoonraker
  • Score: 8

1:31pm Thu 20 Mar 14

sadgit says...

Spot on Lovesey
Spot on Lovesey sadgit
  • Score: 0

1:32pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote:
PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money.

On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough.

We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign.

what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not.

Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions.

I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top.

But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that.

You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process.

If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability?

I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Depends on definition of better!
.
I certainly do not think Walsall MK and even Rotherham are better
.
But I also don't think they are worse!
.
Then again there are teams below like Sheff U who are better!
.
League table doesn't lie by the end and toa certain extent it shows the pecking order - but for me not exactly that if you are 9 you are 9 - but you are upper mid just like 8 and 10 etc
.
Still think Injuries have hindered us big style - yes we are not the only team but losing Troy for over half a season and then Ranger for final 15 have been massive blows!
.
They could be the difference between say 6 and 10
.
QPR prime example - top until Ausitn got injured and now missing out on Auto - are they only 3rd or 4th best - or one of the best but unlucky with a key injury?
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Depends on definition of better! . I certainly do not think Walsall MK and even Rotherham are better . But I also don't think they are worse! . Then again there are teams below like Sheff U who are better! . League table doesn't lie by the end and toa certain extent it shows the pecking order - but for me not exactly that if you are 9 you are 9 - but you are upper mid just like 8 and 10 etc . Still think Injuries have hindered us big style - yes we are not the only team but losing Troy for over half a season and then Ranger for final 15 have been massive blows! . They could be the difference between say 6 and 10 . QPR prime example - top until Ausitn got injured and now missing out on Auto - are they only 3rd or 4th best - or one of the best but unlucky with a key injury? London Red
  • Score: 5

1:48pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier wrote:
It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.
He has said it is mainly him before - but he doesn't help himself though!
.
If you do scan through his Twitter feed and as you have mentioned even in articles on here he often has a swipe at the club in them over it - hardly going to get Power on his side is it!
.
Just because he is a fan doesn't mean he should be given freedom to do what he wants and some of the articles and tweets he has done is bound to have f'd the club off and he is now paying the price
.
Maybe that is why Gary Rose was seen in a higher light as he didn't let his emotions for the club cloud his writing????
[quote][p][bold]The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier[/bold] wrote: It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.[/p][/quote]He has said it is mainly him before - but he doesn't help himself though! . If you do scan through his Twitter feed and as you have mentioned even in articles on here he often has a swipe at the club in them over it - hardly going to get Power on his side is it! . Just because he is a fan doesn't mean he should be given freedom to do what he wants and some of the articles and tweets he has done is bound to have f'd the club off and he is now paying the price . Maybe that is why Gary Rose was seen in a higher light as he didn't let his emotions for the club cloud his writing???? London Red
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.
The bulk of the cuts will clearly be coming from the PdC leftovers and to think it won't is the dilusion - Rooney's 8k a week package shows what stupid wages players were on!

Plus its not another £1.4m cut - but taking the budget down to around £1.5m from the current £2.5m level - so we are looking at a £1m cut
.
£3k a week is about £150k a season - so doesn't take many players to wipe out £1m
.
Williams (£150k), Benson (so £300k), Navarro (up to £450k), Cox (up to £600k) Rooney (now up to £750k) then we have Jay (£900k) and Troy (bang over £1m at £1.2m!)
.
Ok we got some back on Williams and Benson going on loan - but do you think Non league Luton are paying anywhere near his £150k? I don't!
.
Rooney - paid off so saved some there and potentially Jay and Troy will stay on reduced terms - sp not saving the full whack
.
But as a whole we could easily be looking at about £750k from those 7 leaving or signing on again on new terms!
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.[/p][/quote]The bulk of the cuts will clearly be coming from the PdC leftovers and to think it won't is the dilusion - Rooney's 8k a week package shows what stupid wages players were on! Plus its not another £1.4m cut - but taking the budget down to around £1.5m from the current £2.5m level - so we are looking at a £1m cut . £3k a week is about £150k a season - so doesn't take many players to wipe out £1m . Williams (£150k), Benson (so £300k), Navarro (up to £450k), Cox (up to £600k) Rooney (now up to £750k) then we have Jay (£900k) and Troy (bang over £1m at £1.2m!) . Ok we got some back on Williams and Benson going on loan - but do you think Non league Luton are paying anywhere near his £150k? I don't! . Rooney - paid off so saved some there and potentially Jay and Troy will stay on reduced terms - sp not saving the full whack . But as a whole we could easily be looking at about £750k from those 7 leaving or signing on again on new terms! London Red
  • Score: 1

2:02pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Sorry - don't know why Troy is on 6k a week - got carried away there!
.
Still take sus over the magic £1m mark though
Sorry - don't know why Troy is on 6k a week - got carried away there! . Still take sus over the magic £1m mark though London Red
  • Score: 2

2:11pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Bassett Hound says...

London Red wrote:
The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier wrote:
It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.
He has said it is mainly him before - but he doesn't help himself though!
.
If you do scan through his Twitter feed and as you have mentioned even in articles on here he often has a swipe at the club in them over it - hardly going to get Power on his side is it!
.
Just because he is a fan doesn't mean he should be given freedom to do what he wants and some of the articles and tweets he has done is bound to have f'd the club off and he is now paying the price
.
Maybe that is why Gary Rose was seen in a higher light as he didn't let his emotions for the club cloud his writing????
I can remember SAMs Twitter feed on the day the club had a clear the air meeting with the adver - He advertised the web site and telephone number of somebody getting up a petition for the removal of Lee Power.

The damage was done when Lee Power got involved with the club.
The abuse he received from the Advers forum was shocking, the Adver washed their hands of it and never retracted even the worst.

If I had invested £2m in the club and was treated this way by the paper they would not be welcome.

Sam likes to portray himself as the innocent party. I don't see it quite like that.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier[/bold] wrote: It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.[/p][/quote]He has said it is mainly him before - but he doesn't help himself though! . If you do scan through his Twitter feed and as you have mentioned even in articles on here he often has a swipe at the club in them over it - hardly going to get Power on his side is it! . Just because he is a fan doesn't mean he should be given freedom to do what he wants and some of the articles and tweets he has done is bound to have f'd the club off and he is now paying the price . Maybe that is why Gary Rose was seen in a higher light as he didn't let his emotions for the club cloud his writing????[/p][/quote]I can remember SAMs Twitter feed on the day the club had a clear the air meeting with the adver - He advertised the web site and telephone number of somebody getting up a petition for the removal of Lee Power. The damage was done when Lee Power got involved with the club. The abuse he received from the Advers forum was shocking, the Adver washed their hands of it and never retracted even the worst. If I had invested £2m in the club and was treated this way by the paper they would not be welcome. Sam likes to portray himself as the innocent party. I don't see it quite like that. Bassett Hound
  • Score: 2

2:11pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up.

if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy

,Jay leaving then you are deluded.

Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be.

Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this.

As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor.

I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year.

Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently.

we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching.

I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them.

As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.
Yep, fair enough.

We may be discussing Cooper but the big difference between us seems to be about the players. Leaving aside all the arguments about financial mismanagement etc, in January last year I thought we had a side capable of storming to the title, just like we did the previous year.

It all went tits up when we lost Hollands, Ritchie and Martin. We limped on till the end of the season with "replacements" in the form of the three loan players from Spurs, none of whom had the physical presence of any of the three we had lost. After the play offs we then lost Flint, McCormack, Collins and Adam Rooney. Now, whatever we think of those players I think it's probably common ground that all 7 of them could put themselves about a bit, and that's a big attribute in this division. For all the skill in our current squad, we have been very short of that steel all season. That's why I think Cooper's doing as well - or better - than can be expected.

LR, I wasn't really trying to be that precise. Just saying that I don't believe it's realistic to think we are any better than our position in the table suggests. Anyone who wants Cooper out must surely believe we are underachieving - and I just can't see it.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.[/p][/quote]Yep, fair enough. We may be discussing Cooper but the big difference between us seems to be about the players. Leaving aside all the arguments about financial mismanagement etc, in January last year I thought we had a side capable of storming to the title, just like we did the previous year. It all went tits up when we lost Hollands, Ritchie and Martin. We limped on till the end of the season with "replacements" in the form of the three loan players from Spurs, none of whom had the physical presence of any of the three we had lost. After the play offs we then lost Flint, McCormack, Collins and Adam Rooney. Now, whatever we think of those players I think it's probably common ground that all 7 of them could put themselves about a bit, and that's a big attribute in this division. For all the skill in our current squad, we have been very short of that steel all season. That's why I think Cooper's doing as well - or better - than can be expected. LR, I wasn't really trying to be that precise. Just saying that I don't believe it's realistic to think we are any better than our position in the table suggests. Anyone who wants Cooper out must surely believe we are underachieving - and I just can't see it. Oi Den!
  • Score: 1

2:28pm Thu 20 Mar 14

the don69 says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up.

if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy


,Jay leaving then you are deluded.

Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be.

Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this.

As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor.

I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year.

Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently.

we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching.

I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them.

As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.
Yep, fair enough.

We may be discussing Cooper but the big difference between us seems to be about the players. Leaving aside all the arguments about financial mismanagement etc, in January last year I thought we had a side capable of storming to the title, just like we did the previous year.

It all went tits up when we lost Hollands, Ritchie and Martin. We limped on till the end of the season with "replacements" in the form of the three loan players from Spurs, none of whom had the physical presence of any of the three we had lost. After the play offs we then lost Flint, McCormack, Collins and Adam Rooney. Now, whatever we think of those players I think it's probably common ground that all 7 of them could put themselves about a bit, and that's a big attribute in this division. For all the skill in our current squad, we have been very short of that steel all season. That's why I think Cooper's doing as well - or better - than can be expected.

LR, I wasn't really trying to be that precise. Just saying that I don't believe it's realistic to think we are any better than our position in the table suggests. Anyone who wants Cooper out must surely believe we are underachieving - and I just can't see it.
Well summed up Den,if Coops had most of those players available to him I'm sure we'd be sitting very pretty at the top of the league! our squad is far too lightweight to be anywhere else but mid-table! or even lower, Coops has over achieved if he can keep us in mid-table!!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.[/p][/quote]Yep, fair enough. We may be discussing Cooper but the big difference between us seems to be about the players. Leaving aside all the arguments about financial mismanagement etc, in January last year I thought we had a side capable of storming to the title, just like we did the previous year. It all went tits up when we lost Hollands, Ritchie and Martin. We limped on till the end of the season with "replacements" in the form of the three loan players from Spurs, none of whom had the physical presence of any of the three we had lost. After the play offs we then lost Flint, McCormack, Collins and Adam Rooney. Now, whatever we think of those players I think it's probably common ground that all 7 of them could put themselves about a bit, and that's a big attribute in this division. For all the skill in our current squad, we have been very short of that steel all season. That's why I think Cooper's doing as well - or better - than can be expected. LR, I wasn't really trying to be that precise. Just saying that I don't believe it's realistic to think we are any better than our position in the table suggests. Anyone who wants Cooper out must surely believe we are underachieving - and I just can't see it.[/p][/quote]Well summed up Den,if Coops had most of those players available to him I'm sure we'd be sitting very pretty at the top of the league! our squad is far too lightweight to be anywhere else but mid-table! or even lower, Coops has over achieved if he can keep us in mid-table!!!!!!!! the don69
  • Score: 1

2:33pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

Cheers Don. Good to know I'm not completely on my own!
Cheers Don. Good to know I'm not completely on my own! Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

3:00pm Thu 20 Mar 14

smirg kcab says...

themoonraker wrote:
smirg kcab wrote:
smirg kcab wrote:
Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us.

Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned.
What type of cheese are they?
Minus 3 so I'm wrong then?
....Just repetitious and boring, you are best likened to a young rook ( all gobble and sh1t ).
Lol you priik
[quote][p][bold]themoonraker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smirg kcab[/bold] wrote: Twitters a fantastic and unique way for the home media to tell the away managers who's shirts are hanging up in the dressing room, so they can prepare there team to beat us. Glad the adver are squeaky clean and don't get banned. What type of cheese are they?[/p][/quote]Minus 3 so I'm wrong then?[/p][/quote]....Just repetitious and boring, you are best likened to a young rook ( all gobble and sh1t ).[/p][/quote]Lol you priik smirg kcab
  • Score: -5

3:13pm Thu 20 Mar 14

The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier says...

Bassett Hound wrote:
London Red wrote:
The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier wrote:
It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.
He has said it is mainly him before - but he doesn't help himself though!
.
If you do scan through his Twitter feed and as you have mentioned even in articles on here he often has a swipe at the club in them over it - hardly going to get Power on his side is it!
.
Just because he is a fan doesn't mean he should be given freedom to do what he wants and some of the articles and tweets he has done is bound to have f'd the club off and he is now paying the price
.
Maybe that is why Gary Rose was seen in a higher light as he didn't let his emotions for the club cloud his writing????
I can remember SAMs Twitter feed on the day the club had a clear the air meeting with the adver - He advertised the web site and telephone number of somebody getting up a petition for the removal of Lee Power.

The damage was done when Lee Power got involved with the club.
The abuse he received from the Advers forum was shocking, the Adver washed their hands of it and never retracted even the worst.

If I had invested £2m in the club and was treated this way by the paper they would not be welcome.

Sam likes to portray himself as the innocent party. I don't see it quite like that.
OK LR and BH.

I don't do Twitter, so I wouldn't see what you refer to, but I respect your opinions and recognise that they may be better informed. My observations are based purely what I see that he writes for the Adver.
[quote][p][bold]Bassett Hound[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier[/bold] wrote: It seems clear to me that Sam is still ostracised by the club and is forced to write articles from his desk rather than given access to the club. The influx of new names on the sports desk suggests that it his he, rather than the Adver, who is unwelcome and the tone of some of Sam's recent articles shows his disillusionment with the situation. I really feel for him. He is an out-and-out supporter who has a career writing about the club he loves. As such he'll be hurting both personally and professionally.[/p][/quote]He has said it is mainly him before - but he doesn't help himself though! . If you do scan through his Twitter feed and as you have mentioned even in articles on here he often has a swipe at the club in them over it - hardly going to get Power on his side is it! . Just because he is a fan doesn't mean he should be given freedom to do what he wants and some of the articles and tweets he has done is bound to have f'd the club off and he is now paying the price . Maybe that is why Gary Rose was seen in a higher light as he didn't let his emotions for the club cloud his writing????[/p][/quote]I can remember SAMs Twitter feed on the day the club had a clear the air meeting with the adver - He advertised the web site and telephone number of somebody getting up a petition for the removal of Lee Power. The damage was done when Lee Power got involved with the club. The abuse he received from the Advers forum was shocking, the Adver washed their hands of it and never retracted even the worst. If I had invested £2m in the club and was treated this way by the paper they would not be welcome. Sam likes to portray himself as the innocent party. I don't see it quite like that.[/p][/quote]OK LR and BH. I don't do Twitter, so I wouldn't see what you refer to, but I respect your opinions and recognise that they may be better informed. My observations are based purely what I see that he writes for the Adver. The artist formerly known as Marmite Soldier
  • Score: 0

3:21pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

London Red wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.
The bulk of the cuts will clearly be coming from the PdC leftovers and to think it won't is the dilusion - Rooney's 8k a week package shows what stupid wages players were on! Plus its not another £1.4m cut - but taking the budget down to around £1.5m from the current £2.5m level - so we are looking at a £1m cut . £3k a week is about £150k a season - so doesn't take many players to wipe out £1m . Williams (£150k), Benson (so £300k), Navarro (up to £450k), Cox (up to £600k) Rooney (now up to £750k) then we have Jay (£900k) and Troy (bang over £1m at £1.2m!) . Ok we got some back on Williams and Benson going on loan - but do you think Non league Luton are paying anywhere near his £150k? I don't! . Rooney - paid off so saved some there and potentially Jay and Troy will stay on reduced terms - sp not saving the full whack . But as a whole we could easily be looking at about £750k from those 7 leaving or signing on again on new terms!
LR I think some of the wages you are quoting are ridiculous, there were not many if any players on more than 3k per week, you can't bench mark them against Rooney, that was not an 8k basic deal, his basic was reported at the time as 3k with living add ons and performance pay taking it to 8k.

Also we never managed to get the wages to the magic 2.5million which is why Power said he had to put in a further 500k this year, the wages were around 2.9million last time Jed spoke about it, I don't think we have had many leave since.

Lets just see what happens, I have no doubt Lee will have some great additions lined up, nobody can complain that we have signed some talent with a few dodgy ones as well.

Its how they will play and be managed that I have an issue with, maybe people are forgetting what they see on a weekly basis for me we are going backwards and have been for a lot longer than our current poor form, we are abysmal 90% of the time away with a few exceptions.

if we only save 750k on your calculations with no new additions and would need to let others go to even get to budget which wouldn't look good on paper to me.

Not sure Troy will stay and to be fair not sure we should gamble on him, he is a big tough looking unit who is as fragile as glass, whilst I rate him, he doesn't play often enough and our squad will not be big enough to carry sicknotes which is why I also wouldn't bring Mason here despite the quality he has.

Den I do accept that we are missing a Macca type player who puts themselves about, we do need to find a player like him, I think Gladwin could play that given time.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.[/p][/quote]The bulk of the cuts will clearly be coming from the PdC leftovers and to think it won't is the dilusion - Rooney's 8k a week package shows what stupid wages players were on! Plus its not another £1.4m cut - but taking the budget down to around £1.5m from the current £2.5m level - so we are looking at a £1m cut . £3k a week is about £150k a season - so doesn't take many players to wipe out £1m . Williams (£150k), Benson (so £300k), Navarro (up to £450k), Cox (up to £600k) Rooney (now up to £750k) then we have Jay (£900k) and Troy (bang over £1m at £1.2m!) . Ok we got some back on Williams and Benson going on loan - but do you think Non league Luton are paying anywhere near his £150k? I don't! . Rooney - paid off so saved some there and potentially Jay and Troy will stay on reduced terms - sp not saving the full whack . But as a whole we could easily be looking at about £750k from those 7 leaving or signing on again on new terms![/p][/quote]LR I think some of the wages you are quoting are ridiculous, there were not many if any players on more than 3k per week, you can't bench mark them against Rooney, that was not an 8k basic deal, his basic was reported at the time as 3k with living add ons and performance pay taking it to 8k. Also we never managed to get the wages to the magic 2.5million which is why Power said he had to put in a further 500k this year, the wages were around 2.9million last time Jed spoke about it, I don't think we have had many leave since. Lets just see what happens, I have no doubt Lee will have some great additions lined up, nobody can complain that we have signed some talent with a few dodgy ones as well. Its how they will play and be managed that I have an issue with, maybe people are forgetting what they see on a weekly basis for me we are going backwards and have been for a lot longer than our current poor form, we are abysmal 90% of the time away with a few exceptions. if we only save 750k on your calculations with no new additions and would need to let others go to even get to budget which wouldn't look good on paper to me. Not sure Troy will stay and to be fair not sure we should gamble on him, he is a big tough looking unit who is as fragile as glass, whilst I rate him, he doesn't play often enough and our squad will not be big enough to carry sicknotes which is why I also wouldn't bring Mason here despite the quality he has. Den I do accept that we are missing a Macca type player who puts themselves about, we do need to find a player like him, I think Gladwin could play that given time. Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: 0

3:29pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

On the above article, the club clearly still have a beef with the adver, most of it over the allowance of this message board, they don't like people voicing an oppinion and still have a beef about the way they were attacked by supporters when the takeover happened.

Which is funny because there is a lot that the adver could have reported but chose not too about our previous owners.

But if you look at FLIC wilts page, Andrew Steele Davis is being given exclusives and interviews that the adver are not getting access to, any coincidence that they don't have a message board for fans to comment on.

The club should accept that its not for a journo to kiss their buts. Twitter is followed by more and more fans now and has become a fast paced media outlet, Sam can get some news out quicker by that route than by the adver. FLIC also have a twitter account but are more conservative with the postings.
On the above article, the club clearly still have a beef with the adver, most of it over the allowance of this message board, they don't like people voicing an oppinion and still have a beef about the way they were attacked by supporters when the takeover happened. Which is funny because there is a lot that the adver could have reported but chose not too about our previous owners. But if you look at FLIC wilts page, Andrew Steele Davis is being given exclusives and interviews that the adver are not getting access to, any coincidence that they don't have a message board for fans to comment on. The club should accept that its not for a journo to kiss their buts. Twitter is followed by more and more fans now and has become a fast paced media outlet, Sam can get some news out quicker by that route than by the adver. FLIC also have a twitter account but are more conservative with the postings. Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: 1

3:45pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

The more I reflect on the PDC era the more I think he ballsed it up for himself with that final hissy fit. It's obvious that the new owners (for all their bluster to the contrary) weren't prepared to tolerate either his salary or his antics. He played right into their hands by resigning and then expecting the club to come crawling to him. I don't know whether he's pursuing a claim for compensation or not but he'd have been in a far stronger position if he had waited to be sacked.
The more I reflect on the PDC era the more I think he ballsed it up for himself with that final hissy fit. It's obvious that the new owners (for all their bluster to the contrary) weren't prepared to tolerate either his salary or his antics. He played right into their hands by resigning and then expecting the club to come crawling to him. I don't know whether he's pursuing a claim for compensation or not but he'd have been in a far stronger position if he had waited to be sacked. Oi Den!
  • Score: -1

3:46pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
On the above article, the club clearly still have a beef with the adver, most of it over the allowance of this message board, they don't like people voicing an oppinion and still have a beef about the way they were attacked by supporters when the takeover happened.

Which is funny because there is a lot that the adver could have reported but chose not too about our previous owners.

But if you look at FLIC wilts page, Andrew Steele Davis is being given exclusives and interviews that the adver are not getting access to, any coincidence that they don't have a message board for fans to comment on.

The club should accept that its not for a journo to kiss their buts. Twitter is followed by more and more fans now and has become a fast paced media outlet, Sam can get some news out quicker by that route than by the adver. FLIC also have a twitter account but are more conservative with the postings.
Completely with you on this one Lovesey.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: On the above article, the club clearly still have a beef with the adver, most of it over the allowance of this message board, they don't like people voicing an oppinion and still have a beef about the way they were attacked by supporters when the takeover happened. Which is funny because there is a lot that the adver could have reported but chose not too about our previous owners. But if you look at FLIC wilts page, Andrew Steele Davis is being given exclusives and interviews that the adver are not getting access to, any coincidence that they don't have a message board for fans to comment on. The club should accept that its not for a journo to kiss their buts. Twitter is followed by more and more fans now and has become a fast paced media outlet, Sam can get some news out quicker by that route than by the adver. FLIC also have a twitter account but are more conservative with the postings.[/p][/quote]Completely with you on this one Lovesey. Oi Den!
  • Score: 1

3:51pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
London Red wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.
Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.
The bulk of the cuts will clearly be coming from the PdC leftovers and to think it won't is the dilusion - Rooney's 8k a week package shows what stupid wages players were on! Plus its not another £1.4m cut - but taking the budget down to around £1.5m from the current £2.5m level - so we are looking at a £1m cut . £3k a week is about £150k a season - so doesn't take many players to wipe out £1m . Williams (£150k), Benson (so £300k), Navarro (up to £450k), Cox (up to £600k) Rooney (now up to £750k) then we have Jay (£900k) and Troy (bang over £1m at £1.2m!) . Ok we got some back on Williams and Benson going on loan - but do you think Non league Luton are paying anywhere near his £150k? I don't! . Rooney - paid off so saved some there and potentially Jay and Troy will stay on reduced terms - sp not saving the full whack . But as a whole we could easily be looking at about £750k from those 7 leaving or signing on again on new terms!
LR I think some of the wages you are quoting are ridiculous, there were not many if any players on more than 3k per week, you can't bench mark them against Rooney, that was not an 8k basic deal, his basic was reported at the time as 3k with living add ons and performance pay taking it to 8k. Also we never managed to get the wages to the magic 2.5million which is why Power said he had to put in a further 500k this year, the wages were around 2.9million last time Jed spoke about it, I don't think we have had many leave since. Lets just see what happens, I have no doubt Lee will have some great additions lined up, nobody can complain that we have signed some talent with a few dodgy ones as well. Its how they will play and be managed that I have an issue with, maybe people are forgetting what they see on a weekly basis for me we are going backwards and have been for a lot longer than our current poor form, we are abysmal 90% of the time away with a few exceptions. if we only save 750k on your calculations with no new additions and would need to let others go to even get to budget which wouldn't look good on paper to me. Not sure Troy will stay and to be fair not sure we should gamble on him, he is a big tough looking unit who is as fragile as glass, whilst I rate him, he doesn't play often enough and our squad will not be big enough to carry sicknotes which is why I also wouldn't bring Mason here despite the quality he has. Den I do accept that we are missing a Macca type player who puts themselves about, we do need to find a player like him, I think Gladwin could play that given time.
I know Rooney's 8k wasn't his basic wage - thus package not wage was used - the point was that figure became public knowledge and clearly highlighted the sort of packages we were paying - which were outragous to say the least!
.
It doesn't matter if it most of that was add-ons or not it still needs paying and has to be in the budget - Rooney will not be alone in having that type of package - so the other high earners are likely to have similar deals having signed on at similar times - so where above I was stating weekly wages in terms of packages we could be saving a hell of a lot more!
.
I'm pretty certain that most of those named are on or very near the 3k a week mark - Roberts was apparently the highest paid at 3.8k
.
I doubt that the likes of Miller, Roberts, Jay and Navarro would have come down from the Championship for significantly less than that - especially if we were offing that amount to Rooney - who was not first choice like those above were
.
Maybe Rooney and Cox are on a tad less but very very much doubt they would be under 2k a week - which is still a massive wage in L1
.
Maybe Fredi could confirm that as he said he had a document with all salaries broken down to basic and add-ons from last season
.
As you said and as I have been saying for a while - lets see what happens before judging next seasons squad
.
We had some pleasent surprises this year - so lets hope we get some more next!
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]Lovesey, do you really not think the 8 teams above us are better than us? You suggest we are underperforming but from what I've seen every one of those teams is better equipped for life in this division than we are. I expected a relegation battle and am very pleased Cooper has so far managed to keep us away from that. You mention Hall and Ward. I would agree with you but I wonder if he had much choice. Archibald-Henville has been crocked for most of the season. Branco was unproven and is probably not part of the answer anyway. Power said on TV recently that Cooper often asks him for funds to sign players and the answer is usually "no". Cooper might have been asking him for a centre half for ages. The bottom line is that Power and Transparent Jed got their recruitment wrong in the summer and they tied Cooper's hands in the process. If you think he is making such a mess of it, what League position do you think would be a true reflection of our players' ability? I'll stick my neck out here: If Cooper leaves or gets sacked, it will be our loss and someone else's gain.[/p][/quote]Den we are not going to agree budd, my oppinion is my oppinion. You look at the players he has and they are no worse individually than last years group, last year we were 6th but should have auto promotion if the board and kmac hadnt messed it up. if you think our further 1.4 million reduction in budget will only come from, Navaro,Williams,troy ,Jay leaving then you are deluded. Cooper is not the right person, our play is turning people off and is poor to watch, what annoys me is when we have played more direct attacking football we have looked the class act these players should be. Our current run is poor to say the least and I see very little from Cooper to address this. As for defenders you see something from Hall that I dont he has been poor in most games he has had a couple of good games, but this is a player that spurs paid 1million for. I would play Branco in front of Hall every day. As much as I like Ward he has been very very poor. I have supported this club since 1982 Den, not as long as some but more than others, I agree we have seen poorer teams and been in worse financial positions. But I have stoppedgoing to away games recently because it is just not worth watching, the expense and football don't add up for the enjoyment you get from them. This is the first season I have done that. I was also not going to renew my ST's and take a year out because it is so boring to watch our keepball with no actual output, it is only my oppinion but the general way we play is duller than dull. Until we spedd up the tempo get the ball going forward and support the front players, then we look a different team completely. I would rather watch that and lose than try and defend with our defence and be bored stupid. If Power hadn't have done the 10% which hooked me in again then I would have picked my games this year. Now I know you say about Coopers team and tactics aren't his, but he says they are and that he works with Power on the targets and the style of play, so I take that at face value, I also think he comes accross as arrogant and dismissive, I can't help my oppinion its the way I see it and we all see things differently. we play in front of the opposition all of the time with neat football in our own half, if you think back to Hoddle and Ardiles era, how often would you see them pass the ball all the way back when we are ten yards from the opposition goal, now some of that is down to the youthfull decision making and some of it down to Cooper and Williams coaching. I also thought we were going to struggle this year, until I saw the quality we have in the squad and what we were doing at the start of the seaqson, our football has turned from nice attacking slick passing football to keepball at any cost, which leads to mistakes as the opposition can push on to us and pressure because it is all played in front of them. As I said Den i respect your thought but I suppose we just see it differently.[/p][/quote]The bulk of the cuts will clearly be coming from the PdC leftovers and to think it won't is the dilusion - Rooney's 8k a week package shows what stupid wages players were on! Plus its not another £1.4m cut - but taking the budget down to around £1.5m from the current £2.5m level - so we are looking at a £1m cut . £3k a week is about £150k a season - so doesn't take many players to wipe out £1m . Williams (£150k), Benson (so £300k), Navarro (up to £450k), Cox (up to £600k) Rooney (now up to £750k) then we have Jay (£900k) and Troy (bang over £1m at £1.2m!) . Ok we got some back on Williams and Benson going on loan - but do you think Non league Luton are paying anywhere near his £150k? I don't! . Rooney - paid off so saved some there and potentially Jay and Troy will stay on reduced terms - sp not saving the full whack . But as a whole we could easily be looking at about £750k from those 7 leaving or signing on again on new terms![/p][/quote]LR I think some of the wages you are quoting are ridiculous, there were not many if any players on more than 3k per week, you can't bench mark them against Rooney, that was not an 8k basic deal, his basic was reported at the time as 3k with living add ons and performance pay taking it to 8k. Also we never managed to get the wages to the magic 2.5million which is why Power said he had to put in a further 500k this year, the wages were around 2.9million last time Jed spoke about it, I don't think we have had many leave since. Lets just see what happens, I have no doubt Lee will have some great additions lined up, nobody can complain that we have signed some talent with a few dodgy ones as well. Its how they will play and be managed that I have an issue with, maybe people are forgetting what they see on a weekly basis for me we are going backwards and have been for a lot longer than our current poor form, we are abysmal 90% of the time away with a few exceptions. if we only save 750k on your calculations with no new additions and would need to let others go to even get to budget which wouldn't look good on paper to me. Not sure Troy will stay and to be fair not sure we should gamble on him, he is a big tough looking unit who is as fragile as glass, whilst I rate him, he doesn't play often enough and our squad will not be big enough to carry sicknotes which is why I also wouldn't bring Mason here despite the quality he has. Den I do accept that we are missing a Macca type player who puts themselves about, we do need to find a player like him, I think Gladwin could play that given time.[/p][/quote]I know Rooney's 8k wasn't his basic wage - thus package not wage was used - the point was that figure became public knowledge and clearly highlighted the sort of packages we were paying - which were outragous to say the least! . It doesn't matter if it most of that was add-ons or not it still needs paying and has to be in the budget - Rooney will not be alone in having that type of package - so the other high earners are likely to have similar deals having signed on at similar times - so where above I was stating weekly wages in terms of packages we could be saving a hell of a lot more! . I'm pretty certain that most of those named are on or very near the 3k a week mark - Roberts was apparently the highest paid at 3.8k . I doubt that the likes of Miller, Roberts, Jay and Navarro would have come down from the Championship for significantly less than that - especially if we were offing that amount to Rooney - who was not first choice like those above were . Maybe Rooney and Cox are on a tad less but very very much doubt they would be under 2k a week - which is still a massive wage in L1 . Maybe Fredi could confirm that as he said he had a document with all salaries broken down to basic and add-ons from last season . As you said and as I have been saying for a while - lets see what happens before judging next seasons squad . We had some pleasent surprises this year - so lets hope we get some more next! London Red
  • Score: -1

3:55pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote: On the above article, the club clearly still have a beef with the adver, most of it over the allowance of this message board, they don't like people voicing an oppinion and still have a beef about the way they were attacked by supporters when the takeover happened. Which is funny because there is a lot that the adver could have reported but chose not too about our previous owners. But if you look at FLIC wilts page, Andrew Steele Davis is being given exclusives and interviews that the adver are not getting access to, any coincidence that they don't have a message board for fans to comment on. The club should accept that its not for a journo to kiss their buts. Twitter is followed by more and more fans now and has become a fast paced media outlet, Sam can get some news out quicker by that route than by the adver. FLIC also have a twitter account but are more conservative with the postings.
Completely with you on this one Lovesey.
Shouldn't it be a happy medium
.
Obviously they shouldn't just kiss butt - but the same time you don't bite the hand that feeds you!
.
Some of the scare mongering articles on here have certainly done them no favours
.
Then if it is the message board - then why not actually police it!
.
It clearly has the "Do not post anything that is false, abusive or malicious" next to post comment button - yet they never do anything about posts which clearly breach that
.
Ever reported a post? Ever seen anything done about it once you have!
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: On the above article, the club clearly still have a beef with the adver, most of it over the allowance of this message board, they don't like people voicing an oppinion and still have a beef about the way they were attacked by supporters when the takeover happened. Which is funny because there is a lot that the adver could have reported but chose not too about our previous owners. But if you look at FLIC wilts page, Andrew Steele Davis is being given exclusives and interviews that the adver are not getting access to, any coincidence that they don't have a message board for fans to comment on. The club should accept that its not for a journo to kiss their buts. Twitter is followed by more and more fans now and has become a fast paced media outlet, Sam can get some news out quicker by that route than by the adver. FLIC also have a twitter account but are more conservative with the postings.[/p][/quote]Completely with you on this one Lovesey.[/p][/quote]Shouldn't it be a happy medium . Obviously they shouldn't just kiss butt - but the same time you don't bite the hand that feeds you! . Some of the scare mongering articles on here have certainly done them no favours . Then if it is the message board - then why not actually police it! . It clearly has the "Do not post anything that is false, abusive or malicious" next to post comment button - yet they never do anything about posts which clearly breach that . Ever reported a post? Ever seen anything done about it once you have! London Red
  • Score: 0

4:07pm Thu 20 Mar 14

lifelong red says...

Players who I think may leave during the close season - ward , jay , troy,and fods , Harley, A..smith , tijane.- which leaves a core of - Belford, byrne. M.smith , kasim, luango, barthram, branco, storey , N.thompson, L.thompson, gladwin, barker ranger? - that leaves a core of 13 players - assuming that the outgoing players average around 5k p.w and that the remaining ones are on 3k p.w - by my estimation that leaves room for another 9 or 10 players in during the close season bringing the total squad number up to around 23 and within the 1.400 m ceiling . these are all rough estimates .
Players who I think may leave during the close season - ward , jay , troy,and fods , Harley, A..smith , tijane.- which leaves a core of - Belford, byrne. M.smith , kasim, luango, barthram, branco, storey , N.thompson, L.thompson, gladwin, barker ranger? - that leaves a core of 13 players - assuming that the outgoing players average around 5k p.w and that the remaining ones are on 3k p.w - by my estimation that leaves room for another 9 or 10 players in during the close season bringing the total squad number up to around 23 and within the 1.400 m ceiling . these are all rough estimates . lifelong red
  • Score: -1

4:23pm Thu 20 Mar 14

ciclosporindorset says...

Some very good posts today despite the lack of sport, including most of what LR and Oi Den have written ... For a change. I always knew there was sense in there .... Never seen it though until today!,, lol
Sam is under editorial direction from the Adver. He has the tough job of walking the fine line and will be told to stir it by the powers that be ... Sorry for the pun but true. He is caught between 2 Powers. this site though some days is attrocious with all our,,, yes our,,,, worrying. I would prefer it was back in the forum.... The front page is not the lace for dirty pictures. As for Sam ..he is great and unfortunate, I personally love his writing and enjoy it as much as I did Clive King when I lived in Swindon all those years ago.
Some very good posts today despite the lack of sport, including most of what LR and Oi Den have written ... For a change. I always knew there was sense in there .... Never seen it though until today!,, lol Sam is under editorial direction from the Adver. He has the tough job of walking the fine line and will be told to stir it by the powers that be ... Sorry for the pun but true. He is caught between 2 Powers. this site though some days is attrocious with all our,,, yes our,,,, worrying. I would prefer it was back in the forum.... The front page is not the lace for dirty pictures. As for Sam ..he is great and unfortunate, I personally love his writing and enjoy it as much as I did Clive King when I lived in Swindon all those years ago. ciclosporindorset
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Thu 20 Mar 14

lifelong red says...

also assuming the spurs loanees going back.
also assuming the spurs loanees going back. lifelong red
  • Score: 0

4:57pm Thu 20 Mar 14

castle9 says...

Swindon1984 wrote:
stfc2012 wrote:
Difference is Power will be gone with 5 years. Sam will still be supporting the club. Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone. At least Jed appeared to be interested in Swindon and the people. Power is just an arse. Everyone, including nearly all at the club know this. But all play ball to try and keep jobs - and who can blame them. Plenty have already had to take court action to gain what is rightly theirs from this regime. And it won't stop there. I wonder how Sangita's audit commentary is looking...
"Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone."

Care to qualify that? I can see what you mean to a degree with media (i.e. the adver) but who else?
No response from stfc2012 as usual - posts rubbish but never backs it up like many on here.

Still not replied to my question yesterday as to whether he/she has bought an ST ..
[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stfc2012[/bold] wrote: Difference is Power will be gone with 5 years. Sam will still be supporting the club. Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone. At least Jed appeared to be interested in Swindon and the people. Power is just an arse. Everyone, including nearly all at the club know this. But all play ball to try and keep jobs - and who can blame them. Plenty have already had to take court action to gain what is rightly theirs from this regime. And it won't stop there. I wonder how Sangita's audit commentary is looking...[/p][/quote]"Power has treated the town, contractors, ex staff, local media with disrespect and not embraced anyone." Care to qualify that? I can see what you mean to a degree with media (i.e. the adver) but who else?[/p][/quote]No response from stfc2012 as usual - posts rubbish but never backs it up like many on here. Still not replied to my question yesterday as to whether he/she has bought an ST .. castle9
  • Score: 0

5:10pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

ciclosporindorset wrote:
Some very good posts today despite the lack of sport, including most of what LR and Oi Den have written ... For a change. I always knew there was sense in there .... Never seen it though until today!,, lol
Sam is under editorial direction from the Adver. He has the tough job of walking the fine line and will be told to stir it by the powers that be ... Sorry for the pun but true. He is caught between 2 Powers. this site though some days is attrocious with all our,,, yes our,,,, worrying. I would prefer it was back in the forum.... The front page is not the lace for dirty pictures. As for Sam ..he is great and unfortunate, I personally love his writing and enjoy it as much as I did Clive King when I lived in Swindon all those years ago.
Ah, sense - just like nonsense - is all in the eye of the beholder ciclo!
[quote][p][bold]ciclosporindorset[/bold] wrote: Some very good posts today despite the lack of sport, including most of what LR and Oi Den have written ... For a change. I always knew there was sense in there .... Never seen it though until today!,, lol Sam is under editorial direction from the Adver. He has the tough job of walking the fine line and will be told to stir it by the powers that be ... Sorry for the pun but true. He is caught between 2 Powers. this site though some days is attrocious with all our,,, yes our,,,, worrying. I would prefer it was back in the forum.... The front page is not the lace for dirty pictures. As for Sam ..he is great and unfortunate, I personally love his writing and enjoy it as much as I did Clive King when I lived in Swindon all those years ago.[/p][/quote]Ah, sense - just like nonsense - is all in the eye of the beholder ciclo! Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

5:17pm Thu 20 Mar 14

London Red says...

If the 1.4m or 1.5m budget is for players only - then with a squad of 25 that would mean an average wage of 1,076-1,154 per week
.
Now if we get a few long term loans in like this year - then their wages are likely to be reasonably low - so that 25 could actually be 20-22 - boosting it to about 1,300 per week or 70k a year
.
Now with all averages - that will clearly see some on lower (Walden and co are very unlikely to be on 1k+ and shouldn't be!) - thus giving room to bring in others on more (Wes, Troy, Ranger) - but at an average 60k a year should be ample for a L1 footballer - it is after all over double the average wage - and would easily put them in the top 10% earner in the country (which is about 45k)
.
When broken down that way it does seem strange how panic sets in - purely because of the word cut is used
.
Really it should be the budget has be reset to a normal level and as this year has shown we can still be competitive
.
Especially when we see we were overpaying average journeymen who have contributed very little for their inflated wages
.
We could have our main 5 stars on 2k (500k), the next set of key 1st teamers on 1.5k say another 5 (400k), remaining 1st teamers on 1k again another 5 (250k) and the remaining 7 to take us to 22 as the youths or non league punts etc on 750pw - still a decent wage at about 40k! (275k) giving a total of 1.4m for 22
.
We then have a few extra pounds to either add another player or 2 or boost a wage here or there to secure the player we want
If the 1.4m or 1.5m budget is for players only - then with a squad of 25 that would mean an average wage of 1,076-1,154 per week . Now if we get a few long term loans in like this year - then their wages are likely to be reasonably low - so that 25 could actually be 20-22 - boosting it to about 1,300 per week or 70k a year . Now with all averages - that will clearly see some on lower (Walden and co are very unlikely to be on 1k+ and shouldn't be!) - thus giving room to bring in others on more (Wes, Troy, Ranger) - but at an average 60k a year should be ample for a L1 footballer - it is after all over double the average wage - and would easily put them in the top 10% earner in the country (which is about 45k) . When broken down that way it does seem strange how panic sets in - purely because of the word cut is used . Really it should be the budget has be reset to a normal level and as this year has shown we can still be competitive . Especially when we see we were overpaying average journeymen who have contributed very little for their inflated wages . We could have our main 5 stars on 2k (500k), the next set of key 1st teamers on 1.5k say another 5 (400k), remaining 1st teamers on 1k again another 5 (250k) and the remaining 7 to take us to 22 as the youths or non league punts etc on 750pw - still a decent wage at about 40k! (275k) giving a total of 1.4m for 22 . We then have a few extra pounds to either add another player or 2 or boost a wage here or there to secure the player we want London Red
  • Score: -2

7:44pm Thu 20 Mar 14

the wizard says...

LR, if anyone was the ultimate philosophical supporter then its you, hands down easily. A lot of what you say is right, but you are to a point, rose tinted, in Wilsons last season you were alone is saying we could stay up at Easter was it. The truth is, we all go and watch a game,and we all have our own take on it. Some say Hall is turd because he has been, in quite a few games as well. No, he isn't the finished article, we can all agree on that, but perhaps the wrong man in with Ward who has had a mare of a season, especially by his standards.
I think everybody is well aware of the financial package we have to work under, and to be fair Power has stumped up over £2M. That is a lot of cash, and most here will never have that to their names, let alone speculate it on a money pit like this club. A lot rides on Power, but do you really honestly in your heart of hearts see any passion coming from our bench during games, maybe its the same disease Wilson had, lol.
Anyroad life and football, neither fall into sweet little packages as you sometimes suggest, and many issues are not as clear cut as we would all wish them to be, but some things are avoidable, for instance our lack of discipline on field this season which has brought about suspensions which have not been welcome, but on the face of it, Cooper seems do do little about it. Pritch has just incurred wrath, but its a bit late in the season for that. He could develop into a good player, but he needs to grow up. As I said a few days back, to be a Town supporter, expect the unexpected, and you won't go far wrong.
LR, if anyone was the ultimate philosophical supporter then its you, hands down easily. A lot of what you say is right, but you are to a point, rose tinted, in Wilsons last season you were alone is saying we could stay up at Easter was it. The truth is, we all go and watch a game,and we all have our own take on it. Some say Hall is turd because he has been, in quite a few games as well. No, he isn't the finished article, we can all agree on that, but perhaps the wrong man in with Ward who has had a mare of a season, especially by his standards. I think everybody is well aware of the financial package we have to work under, and to be fair Power has stumped up over £2M. That is a lot of cash, and most here will never have that to their names, let alone speculate it on a money pit like this club. A lot rides on Power, but do you really honestly in your heart of hearts see any passion coming from our bench during games, maybe its the same disease Wilson had, lol. Anyroad life and football, neither fall into sweet little packages as you sometimes suggest, and many issues are not as clear cut as we would all wish them to be, but some things are avoidable, for instance our lack of discipline on field this season which has brought about suspensions which have not been welcome, but on the face of it, Cooper seems do do little about it. Pritch has just incurred wrath, but its a bit late in the season for that. He could develop into a good player, but he needs to grow up. As I said a few days back, to be a Town supporter, expect the unexpected, and you won't go far wrong. the wizard
  • Score: 2

8:14pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Kevinkog says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money.

On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough.

We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign.

what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not.

Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions.

I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top.

But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
I don't know about others but I totally fed up with every time a subject is mentioned no matter what some fool hast to bring the subject back to the most boring thing out, that of we need to spend money & get a new manager. yawn yawn, yawn, Please I beg of you get it into that thick heads of yours WE HAVE NO MONEY to spend on expensive players & Flashy coaches so lets support what we got & live in the real world, unless your going to hand the club 5 million a year for the next 5 - 10 -15 years to support this hairy fairy dream world that you seen to be living in.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]I don't know about others but I totally fed up with every time a subject is mentioned no matter what some fool hast to bring the subject back to the most boring thing out, that of we need to spend money & get a new manager. yawn yawn, yawn, Please I beg of you get it into that thick heads of yours WE HAVE NO MONEY to spend on expensive players & Flashy coaches so lets support what we got & live in the real world, unless your going to hand the club 5 million a year for the next 5 - 10 -15 years to support this hairy fairy dream world that you seen to be living in. Kevinkog
  • Score: -1

9:14pm Thu 20 Mar 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

Kevinkog wrote:
Is that you Lovesey wrote:
PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money.

On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough.

We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign.

what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not.

Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions.

I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top.

But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.
I don't know about others but I totally fed up with every time a subject is mentioned no matter what some fool hast to bring the subject back to the most boring thing out, that of we need to spend money & get a new manager. yawn yawn, yawn, Please I beg of you get it into that thick heads of yours WE HAVE NO MONEY to spend on expensive players & Flashy coaches so lets support what we got & live in the real world, unless your going to hand the club 5 million a year for the next 5 - 10 -15 years to support this hairy fairy dream world that you seen to be living in.
You have your oppinion i will have mine, so you go comment on someone elses post who cares what you think
[quote][p][bold]Kevinkog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: PDC was never worth 14k a week to a club like us after all that pompuss pondering about not being here for the money. On another note, cooper isn't doing a good job, he has comparitive players or better players all accross the pitch, he hasn't addressed the defence until recently persisting with Hall and ward neither of which are good enough. We can make excuses about it not being his team and he should get his own players, but that would mean we are calling Cooper a liar, he has repeatedly said he has input in the players we sign. what was good was Power covering off the CR8 piece and he is right, would Spurs be lending us their players and selling Luongo and Byrne to us if Power had ripped them off, I think not. Talking about championship football is laughable when you look at us, we have a non league manager and budget cuts worse than conservative defecit reductions. I honestly can't see us getting out of this league unless its downwards with the current set up, this league is starting to get some real big teams in it with big crowds and big budgets and it will be hard for us without investment to compete at the top. But on the plus side, if that means we have a sustainable club that we can watch for many a year to come then its not so hard to accept.[/p][/quote]I don't know about others but I totally fed up with every time a subject is mentioned no matter what some fool hast to bring the subject back to the most boring thing out, that of we need to spend money & get a new manager. yawn yawn, yawn, Please I beg of you get it into that thick heads of yours WE HAVE NO MONEY to spend on expensive players & Flashy coaches so lets support what we got & live in the real world, unless your going to hand the club 5 million a year for the next 5 - 10 -15 years to support this hairy fairy dream world that you seen to be living in.[/p][/quote]You have your oppinion i will have mine, so you go comment on someone elses post who cares what you think Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: 0

9:44pm Thu 20 Mar 14

NORTH STAND says...

Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer.....

This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....
Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer..... This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club..... NORTH STAND
  • Score: 3

8:01am Fri 21 Mar 14

Is that you Lovesey says...

NORTH STAND wrote:
Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer..... This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....
Absolutely agree, people seem to be forgetting that we have won once in two months and were lucky to win in a few games before that.

Malpass went for one win in 13......
[quote][p][bold]NORTH STAND[/bold] wrote: Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer..... This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....[/p][/quote]Absolutely agree, people seem to be forgetting that we have won once in two months and were lucky to win in a few games before that. Malpass went for one win in 13...... Is that you Lovesey
  • Score: 0

12:19am Sat 22 Mar 14

Oi Den! says...

Is that you Lovesey wrote:
NORTH STAND wrote:
Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer..... This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....
Absolutely agree, people seem to be forgetting that we have won once in two months and were lucky to win in a few games before that.

Malpass went for one win in 13......
From memory... I thought Malpas was sacked after getting 7 points from the previous 3 League games and the real reason for the bullet was that we lost to Histon in the Cup and to Brighton in the paint pot - that competition
just gets in the way of everything else.
[quote][p][bold]Is that you Lovesey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NORTH STAND[/bold] wrote: Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer..... This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....[/p][/quote]Absolutely agree, people seem to be forgetting that we have won once in two months and were lucky to win in a few games before that. Malpass went for one win in 13......[/p][/quote]From memory... I thought Malpas was sacked after getting 7 points from the previous 3 League games and the real reason for the bullet was that we lost to Histon in the Cup and to Brighton in the paint pot - that competition just gets in the way of everything else. Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

1:20am Sat 22 Mar 14

Oxon-Red says...

NORTH STAND wrote:
Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer.....

This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....
And your answer to the problem is....
[quote][p][bold]NORTH STAND[/bold] wrote: Don't hold back London - surely if you assume PDC was on lets say 28k a week and then make up figures of, perhaps 6k a week for ten random individuals and add say £0.5m for ice creams it should be possible tomorrow for you to demonstrate that Power did not just save the club from imminent oblivion and big dragon things but has more recently resolved the nation's structural debt and will shortly be freeing Crimea from the ridiculous mess Di Canio left it in...... if you start with **** then you can cut it any way you like but you are only getting one answer..... This forum is getting sillier - throw them a fish and watch them clap.... we have won once in two months and taken four points from the last twenty one and still we have people planning for next year's promotion push.... this is not a short term blip caused by weather or injuries or the much maligned Cooper - this is the simple outcome of replacing proper footballers with conference level longshots.... if you have a recruitment policy that consists of a) would you like to change your agent and b ) will you play for £800 a week then at least accept that Forest Green are now the bigger club.....[/p][/quote]And your answer to the problem is.... Oxon-Red
  • Score: 0

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