Power outlines Town vision

The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald: Town's new owner Lee Power Town's new owner Lee Power

LEE Power plans to take the neanderthal approach to the chairman’s role at Swindon Town, as he aims to guide the club towards the Championship and self-sustainability.

Power held his first press conference as Town’s new owner at the County Ground yesterday morning, during which he admitted to being “a bit of a caveman” when it came to social media, stressed that he was much more comfortable out of the limelight and emphasised his commitment to cutting expenses while maintaining a successful team.

It was a calculated and assured display in front of the regional media.

The former Norwich City striker broached topics such as his Swiss residency, ground redevelopment or lack thereof, his intentions for the Robins under his stewardship, Twitter, the structure of the club’s boardroom and the January transfer window - with many of his answers echoing the sentiments he expressed in a statement on Tuesday.

Much of what Power had to say was steeped in optimism and designed to reassure fans that stability is one of his primary objectives in the early weeks of his tenure.

“Football has been in my blood ever since I was a kid, I’ve known nothing else but football,” he said. “When you finish football you have to make a living so I went into business, learnt the hard way on a few things, got an education there.

“Football’s a jungle but I know how to navigate my way around it. I think I’ve got a blueprint here and a philosophy on the football side which I think in the medium term means we need to be challenging for the Championship.

“Once we achieve that goal, I think with the contacts and the knowledge I have I see no reason why we can’t push on and try to have a crack at the Premier League.

“There needs to be a bit of unity. There’s been a lot of uncertainty.

“First and foremost there needs to be a bit of stability. I’m not going anywhere. I’m coming in to the football club to try to do what other people have done and flip it and move it on and sell it. I’m not doing that.”

Unity and stability are buzzwords so often floated by new owners of Swindon Town but rarely delivered. The Robins have been through five managers, four chairman and three owners in the past 14 months alone and it is perhaps unsurprising that the community has become increasingly sceptical of the men who control the largest sports club in the town.

Power, however, for all the rumour and hearsay that has drifted through cyberspace in recent weeks, is presenting himself as a credible next step. To do so, he turned to honesty.

Redevelopment of the County Ground, he said, did not interest him - a far cry from the long-term goals of his predecessor Jed McCrory, who had grand designs for a leisure complex in SN1. Relocation is not on the agenda either, for that matter. Power, instead, wants to build a successful squad from a sustainable blueprint.

Since arriving in Wiltshire in March, Power has assisted in chopping Town’s footballing budget in half - and further reductions are expected this summer, with next season’s kitty expected to weigh in at around the £1.5million. Still, the 41-year-old feels promotion does not have to be bought.

“I haven’t got the wealth of certain other individuals that have owned it and I’ve got no interest in the ground redevelopments or relocations or whatever you call it,” he said.

“It’s purely based on the football side and the football club as a business, and I believe that given time I can get it from losing money to making money - it’s as simple as that.

“I’ve got a long-term goal that, once this football club is in the Championship, it will be making a profit. That’s why I’m here. I’m a businessman and I’m sure the fans would be okay with that.

“If it gets into the Premier League it will be making a lot of money. If it did I’d be very pleased and I’m sure the fans will be.

“When the summer comes there are still people who are on contracts from previous regimes which, at the current level, the club can’t afford.

“They will come to an end in the summer and that’s when the football club can become self-sufficient. There are ways and means of doing things, some people’s ways are throwing money at it and having a crack at it.”

In comparison to his predecessor - the outspoken and enigmatic McCrory - Power presents himself as a much more introverted character.

He readily admits to not understanding Twitter and, having seen the chairman-player relationship from the other side of the fence, feels that an owner is best served biding his time in the background.

“It’s difficult because I’m following Jed who is a different animal to me - not in a disrespectful way,” he said.

“I’m a bit of a caveman, a bit of a traditionalist. I won’t be going on Twitter, I won’t be going on forums and things like that. I don’t understand them to be honest and I don’t think it’s the place for a chairman.

“I’d rather be more unassuming. Where I’ve played the game I’m used to the press, I’m used to the media and I don’t have a problem with them. I’ve got a lot of friends in the press and media.

“At a football club I think the most important people should be the players and the manager and that’s what I think people should read about.

“I’m there if anyone wants to ask me anything, if anyone has doubts or concerns I’m happy to answer the questions but on a day-to-day basis I do think the focus should be on the players or the management.”

Power will retain Sangita Shah on his two-person board, with accountant Steve Crouch expected to be added in due course.

Despite only being allowed in the country for 90 days a year under the terms of his Swiss residency, Town’s new top dog does not feel he needs to draft in a raft of faces to help him run the club.

“In today’s climate and with the technology of today it’s a little different to 10 years ago. It doesn’t matter where you are in the world, you can keep your finger on the pulse,” he said.

“I think we’ll probably make one more addition but that will come later. It won’t be for investment purposes, it will just be someone who can help with overall structure and the day to day runnings of the football club.

“We don’t need any more investment.

“Don’t get me wrong it would be nice, but we’ve demonstrated to the Football League that there’s enough money in the football club to see us through until the end of the season.

“At the end of the season the football club will be self-sufficient and sustainable.”

Power sat down with previous owner Andrew Black before assuming control at the County Ground to come to an arrangement whereby an outstanding liability of £3million, owed to the Betfair founder upon any further sale of the club, was not activated.

In conversation, you get the impression Power really does intend to be with Swindon for the long haul, and he’s laying down the groundwork to achieve just that.

Comments (89)

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6:29am Sat 7 Dec 13

nosyrudeman says...

Well, from a forthright statement that seems to be honest and looks like he is here to stay for the medium to long term. I welcome Lee Power with open arms to bring stability to STFC, which is needed big time. Stadia improvement is all well and good but you have to have a team that will bring the crowd's back to the CG, and with success comes money and then you improve both the playing side and the stadium. I do hope you mean that we will be self sufficent by next season. I would like a statement about the so called debts that seem to be hanging around our neck for ever. LP hints he is here for the long haul, well I got bit by the bug in 1961 and been every season since.

I have a dream that one day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!

C'mon you REDZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Well, from a forthright statement that seems to be honest and looks like he is here to stay for the medium to long term. I welcome Lee Power with open arms to bring stability to STFC, which is needed big time. Stadia improvement is all well and good but you have to have a team that will bring the crowd's back to the CG, and with success comes money and then you improve both the playing side and the stadium. I do hope you mean that we will be self sufficent by next season. I would like a statement about the so called debts that seem to be hanging around our neck for ever. LP hints he is here for the long haul, well I got bit by the bug in 1961 and been every season since. I have a dream that one day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! C'mon you REDZZZZZZZZZZZ. nosyrudeman

7:40am Sat 7 Dec 13

Chish and Fips says...

From the snippet I saw on TV he came over very well, cool calm and collective.
I still consider Jed had a rough ride from supporters but to a degree he was his own worst enemy. I think he initially said what he thought supporters wanted to hear, and not what he could offer, so this made quite a few suspicious.
From the snippet I saw on TV he came over very well, cool calm and collective. I still consider Jed had a rough ride from supporters but to a degree he was his own worst enemy. I think he initially said what he thought supporters wanted to hear, and not what he could offer, so this made quite a few suspicious. Chish and Fips

7:55am Sat 7 Dec 13

glenda hoddle says...

Im in two minds about lee power.I think the only advantage over jed is the tim sherwood connection with Tottenham. If that went tits up.
Im in two minds about lee power.I think the only advantage over jed is the tim sherwood connection with Tottenham. If that went tits up. glenda hoddle

7:59am Sat 7 Dec 13

Swindon1984 says...

Talks a lot of sense, maybe slightly oversimplifying things though, I'd be interested to see how we can turn a profit in the championship given an increased wage bill which doubtless won't be outweighed by attendances. Either that or break even, in which case how wil we afford the playing budget to climb the leagues? Don't get me wrong I'd rather us be self sufficient but Power clearly thinks we can have that and have success. I'm a bit more sceptical about that.
Talks a lot of sense, maybe slightly oversimplifying things though, I'd be interested to see how we can turn a profit in the championship given an increased wage bill which doubtless won't be outweighed by attendances. Either that or break even, in which case how wil we afford the playing budget to climb the leagues? Don't get me wrong I'd rather us be self sufficient but Power clearly thinks we can have that and have success. I'm a bit more sceptical about that. Swindon1984

8:22am Sat 7 Dec 13

Rgbargee says...

I like the style Lee has.There is nothing wrong with his plans so far as I can see. OK not very exciting watching the purse strings being tightened, but it is the only way if there are no cashed up investors.
Lee has said football is in his blood and that what happens on the pitch is the most important thing for him, which is music to my ears. We have already seen how Lee has the contacts to build a "cheap" team that can really play very well on their day. If we are able to be in the play off positions I feel we could just make it into the Championship this season. My fear is that it may be too soon ,as Lee is not cashed up enough to buy replacement players for our loan based team.
Anyway I do feel more at ease today and will concentrate on things on the field, just for a change.
I like the style Lee has.There is nothing wrong with his plans so far as I can see. OK not very exciting watching the purse strings being tightened, but it is the only way if there are no cashed up investors. Lee has said football is in his blood and that what happens on the pitch is the most important thing for him, which is music to my ears. We have already seen how Lee has the contacts to build a "cheap" team that can really play very well on their day. If we are able to be in the play off positions I feel we could just make it into the Championship this season. My fear is that it may be too soon ,as Lee is not cashed up enough to buy replacement players for our loan based team. Anyway I do feel more at ease today and will concentrate on things on the field, just for a change. Rgbargee

9:03am Sat 7 Dec 13

matt71 says...

Agree about ground redevelopment to certain extent but stratton bank must have a roof especially if we want to get into the championship.people siting on an open bank is not acceptable anymore.
Agree about ground redevelopment to certain extent but stratton bank must have a roof especially if we want to get into the championship.people siting on an open bank is not acceptable anymore. matt71

9:04am Sat 7 Dec 13

the don69 says...

You can talk the talk Lee!only time will tell if you can walk the walk!good luck and don't feck up!!!!!!!!!
You can talk the talk Lee!only time will tell if you can walk the walk!good luck and don't feck up!!!!!!!!! the don69

9:07am Sat 7 Dec 13

stfc2012 says...

Jed didn't and still does t have a clue about football, and he has no contacts. And he's full of it. Power is a far far far better option and will probably do well with what he has got. My thoughts are with those that get Jed as their next chairman, walking round the ground as a self professed hero while fans soak it up. Power at least is interested in football and not popularity. Although I'd keep an eye on the finances.
Jed didn't and still does t have a clue about football, and he has no contacts. And he's full of it. Power is a far far far better option and will probably do well with what he has got. My thoughts are with those that get Jed as their next chairman, walking round the ground as a self professed hero while fans soak it up. Power at least is interested in football and not popularity. Although I'd keep an eye on the finances. stfc2012

9:09am Sat 7 Dec 13

London Red says...

I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that
.
Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back
.
So is Power that wrong???
.
The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount
.
If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here!
.
The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that
.
As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated London Red

9:36am Sat 7 Dec 13

glenda hoddle says...

London Red wrote:
I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
Over played. I dont think so london red. Lungo, byrne, pritchard and mason. Arguably are best 4players.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated[/p][/quote]Over played. I dont think so london red. Lungo, byrne, pritchard and mason. Arguably are best 4players. glenda hoddle

9:41am Sat 7 Dec 13

stfclondon says...

My first post in a long time - just to say that I like what I'm hearing from Lee Power; he seems to have his priorities right. He talks a good game, so let's see what he can do.
My first post in a long time - just to say that I like what I'm hearing from Lee Power; he seems to have his priorities right. He talks a good game, so let's see what he can do. stfclondon

9:48am Sat 7 Dec 13

MarksDad says...

glenda hoddle wrote:
London Red wrote:
I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
Over played. I dont think so london red. Lungo, byrne, pritchard and mason. Arguably are best 4players.
We paid for Luongo!
[quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated[/p][/quote]Over played. I dont think so london red. Lungo, byrne, pritchard and mason. Arguably are best 4players.[/p][/quote]We paid for Luongo! MarksDad

9:49am Sat 7 Dec 13

MarksDad says...

and Byrne is signed up as well.
and Byrne is signed up as well. MarksDad

9:57am Sat 7 Dec 13

glenda hoddle says...

MarksDad wrote:
glenda hoddle wrote:
London Red wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
Over played. I dont think so london red. Lungo, byrne, pritchard and mason. Arguably are best 4players.
We paid for Luongo!
?. And your point. We paid for byrne too. Both came for Tottenham on loan.
[quote][p][bold]MarksDad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated[/p][/quote]Over played. I dont think so london red. Lungo, byrne, pritchard and mason. Arguably are best 4players.[/p][/quote]We paid for Luongo![/p][/quote]?. And your point. We paid for byrne too. Both came for Tottenham on loan. glenda hoddle

9:58am Sat 7 Dec 13

London Red says...

Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list!
.
Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!)
.
Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley
.
Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed
.
5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year
Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year London Red

10:01am Sat 7 Dec 13

mancrobin says...

Lee must be coming to the end of his 90 days?

Swiss time is running out.........
Lee must be coming to the end of his 90 days? Swiss time is running out......... mancrobin

10:08am Sat 7 Dec 13

Robinonfire says...

Im looking into Powers crystal ball
L1/L2 Football for ever.
Loan players for ever
Always sell your best players.
Sell club in 2/3 years make big profit.
Im looking into Powers crystal ball L1/L2 Football for ever. Loan players for ever Always sell your best players. Sell club in 2/3 years make big profit. Robinonfire

10:11am Sat 7 Dec 13

andy5364 says...

I to quite like what he is saying except I would like in the long term to see a totally revamped stadium or a new purpose built one . If his aim is sustainable championship football then a multi purpose stadium is a must in my eyes to keep the extra revenue streams coming in ... im well aware it not going to happen in the short term but I feel it must be a long term aim . In the meantime he has my full support as ive liked what ive seen so far . CoYR
I to quite like what he is saying except I would like in the long term to see a totally revamped stadium or a new purpose built one . If his aim is sustainable championship football then a multi purpose stadium is a must in my eyes to keep the extra revenue streams coming in ... im well aware it not going to happen in the short term but I feel it must be a long term aim . In the meantime he has my full support as ive liked what ive seen so far . CoYR andy5364

10:17am Sat 7 Dec 13

Chish and Fips says...

Robinonfire wrote:
Im looking into Powers crystal ball
L1/L2 Football for ever.
Loan players for ever
Always sell your best players.
Sell club in 2/3 years make big profit.
Ever the optimist - you must be one bundle of laughs :o(
[quote][p][bold]Robinonfire[/bold] wrote: Im looking into Powers crystal ball L1/L2 Football for ever. Loan players for ever Always sell your best players. Sell club in 2/3 years make big profit.[/p][/quote]Ever the optimist - you must be one bundle of laughs :o( Chish and Fips

10:19am Sat 7 Dec 13

Brainy_G93 says...

What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?
What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself? Brainy_G93

10:19am Sat 7 Dec 13

glenda hoddle says...

London Red wrote:
Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year
London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year[/p][/quote]London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games. glenda hoddle

10:24am Sat 7 Dec 13

chalkswindon says...

You can see the angle Lee Power is going for, and for me it is obvious.

He does not want to shelling out loads of money on players whether that be transfer fees, signing fees, agents fee etc. Instead he is looking at building a team with a couple of decent players and then top that up with as many really decent loan signings as he can from the Premiership.

His interview the other day reiterated this when he said he had got sick and tired of hearing Tim Sherwood moan about not being able to send out kids to clubs who play football a certain way. That's where we fit in and if Spurs are thinking the same I bet other Premiership teams are thinking it too.

Now If I was a Premiership manager and I had a choice of loaning out a player to team A who might contribute another 20% of the wages but do not play a passing game or team B who offer 20% less of the wages but will utilise the player in the best way possible to help him develop and grow into the player I want, then there is no contest as to which club I would let my player go out on loan to!

I think he is looking at the likes of Crew in the past who have brought players through their ranks but have also maximised the loan systems in the past as well. I remember an interview with Dario Gradi from Crewe many moons ago and he was asked how he got a certain player on loan and he said the club called me because they know the player will be treated well and looked after here better than their own reserve team!

If the current crop of players are anything to go by all I can say is bring it on. Welcome to the forefront Mr Power.
You can see the angle Lee Power is going for, and for me it is obvious. He does not want to shelling out loads of money on players whether that be transfer fees, signing fees, agents fee etc. Instead he is looking at building a team with a couple of decent players and then top that up with as many really decent loan signings as he can from the Premiership. His interview the other day reiterated this when he said he had got sick and tired of hearing Tim Sherwood moan about not being able to send out kids to clubs who play football a certain way. That's where we fit in and if Spurs are thinking the same I bet other Premiership teams are thinking it too. Now If I was a Premiership manager and I had a choice of loaning out a player to team A who might contribute another 20% of the wages but do not play a passing game or team B who offer 20% less of the wages but will utilise the player in the best way possible to help him develop and grow into the player I want, then there is no contest as to which club I would let my player go out on loan to! I think he is looking at the likes of Crew in the past who have brought players through their ranks but have also maximised the loan systems in the past as well. I remember an interview with Dario Gradi from Crewe many moons ago and he was asked how he got a certain player on loan and he said the club called me because they know the player will be treated well and looked after here better than their own reserve team! If the current crop of players are anything to go by all I can say is bring it on. Welcome to the forefront Mr Power. chalkswindon

11:04am Sat 7 Dec 13

Rebel_phish says...

Brainy_G93 wrote:
What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?
No, not really. Ever heard of telephone conference calls or Video links.

“I’m a bit of a caveman, a bit of a traditionalist. I won’t be going on Twitter, I won’t be going on forums and things like that. I don’t understand them to be honest and I don’t think it’s the place for a chairman.

“In today’s climate and with the technology of today it’s a little different to 10 years ago. It doesn’t matter where you are in the world, you can keep your finger on the pulse,” he said.

He maybe a self confessed caveman, but I'm sure Lee's no Luddite.
[quote][p][bold]Brainy_G93[/bold] wrote: What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?[/p][/quote]No, not really. Ever heard of telephone conference calls or Video links. “I’m a bit of a caveman, a bit of a traditionalist. I won’t be going on Twitter, I won’t be going on forums and things like that. I don’t understand them to be honest and I don’t think it’s the place for a chairman. “In today’s climate and with the technology of today it’s a little different to 10 years ago. It doesn’t matter where you are in the world, you can keep your finger on the pulse,” he said. He maybe a self confessed caveman, but I'm sure Lee's no Luddite. Rebel_phish

11:05am Sat 7 Dec 13

smirg kcab says...

Cut budget? Don't want investors? Want premier league?
Surely only new investors with cash can make any such a dream a reality or am I missing something?
Cut budget? Don't want investors? Want premier league? Surely only new investors with cash can make any such a dream a reality or am I missing something? smirg kcab

11:11am Sat 7 Dec 13

Stilloyal says...

How sensible and refreshing is Lee Powers statement. Nothing fancyDan or bull sh#tty just factual and intelligent.
Certainly It makes sense to get to a point where we need to redevelop before we do it rather than spend money we can ill afford an have a half empty stadium.
I like Power's wise approach, we wont need a bigger ground until we are a sustainable championship club.
Power to our new owner and Power for the fans
How sensible and refreshing is Lee Powers statement. Nothing fancyDan or bull sh#tty just factual and intelligent. Certainly It makes sense to get to a point where we need to redevelop before we do it rather than spend money we can ill afford an have a half empty stadium. I like Power's wise approach, we wont need a bigger ground until we are a sustainable championship club. Power to our new owner and Power for the fans Stilloyal

11:18am Sat 7 Dec 13

Davethered says...

Right , time to get real , he hasn't got any money to invest , hence putting £1.2 million in to get FL approval for a takeover , the taking it all back out a couple of weeks later. He is using this club as a toy to play with whilst he lives in switzerland. The only way he'll manage to keep the club afloat is by selling his best players in the transfer windows. You cannot run a football club with 2/3 people at the helm. You need a team off the field as well as on the field. As for ground improvements , what if we had high wind and that horrible old roof on the town end blew off . You can't always rely on insurance payouts. You need someone with money to invest in the infrastructure as well as the team. This club is not a toy to be played with from hundreds of miles away , it means an awful lot to many people in swindon . Your smoke screen doesn't fool me. A lot of people on this forum are very young and gullible , but I've seen this so many times before . I think you will keep the club for a few months whilst thing are going ok , then soon as things start to turn against you , then bye bye off you trot , the same as everyone else.
Right , time to get real , he hasn't got any money to invest , hence putting £1.2 million in to get FL approval for a takeover , the taking it all back out a couple of weeks later. He is using this club as a toy to play with whilst he lives in switzerland. The only way he'll manage to keep the club afloat is by selling his best players in the transfer windows. You cannot run a football club with 2/3 people at the helm. You need a team off the field as well as on the field. As for ground improvements , what if we had high wind and that horrible old roof on the town end blew off . You can't always rely on insurance payouts. You need someone with money to invest in the infrastructure as well as the team. This club is not a toy to be played with from hundreds of miles away , it means an awful lot to many people in swindon . Your smoke screen doesn't fool me. A lot of people on this forum are very young and gullible , but I've seen this so many times before . I think you will keep the club for a few months whilst thing are going ok , then soon as things start to turn against you , then bye bye off you trot , the same as everyone else. Davethered

11:34am Sat 7 Dec 13

Cleuso says...

Swindon1984 wrote:
Talks a lot of sense, maybe slightly oversimplifying things though, I'd be interested to see how we can turn a profit in the championship given an increased wage bill which doubtless won't be outweighed by attendances. Either that or break even, in which case how wil we afford the playing budget to climb the leagues? Don't get me wrong I'd rather us be self sufficient but Power clearly thinks we can have that and have success. I'm a bit more sceptical about that.
Not forgetting of course the massively increased share of the TV money that Championship clubs compared to those in League 1 and 2
[quote][p][bold]Swindon1984[/bold] wrote: Talks a lot of sense, maybe slightly oversimplifying things though, I'd be interested to see how we can turn a profit in the championship given an increased wage bill which doubtless won't be outweighed by attendances. Either that or break even, in which case how wil we afford the playing budget to climb the leagues? Don't get me wrong I'd rather us be self sufficient but Power clearly thinks we can have that and have success. I'm a bit more sceptical about that.[/p][/quote]Not forgetting of course the massively increased share of the TV money that Championship clubs compared to those in League 1 and 2 Cleuso

11:38am Sat 7 Dec 13

Cleuso says...

Davethered wrote:
Right , time to get real , he hasn't got any money to invest , hence putting £1.2 million in to get FL approval for a takeover , the taking it all back out a couple of weeks later. He is using this club as a toy to play with whilst he lives in switzerland. The only way he'll manage to keep the club afloat is by selling his best players in the transfer windows. You cannot run a football club with 2/3 people at the helm. You need a team off the field as well as on the field. As for ground improvements , what if we had high wind and that horrible old roof on the town end blew off . You can't always rely on insurance payouts. You need someone with money to invest in the infrastructure as well as the team. This club is not a toy to be played with from hundreds of miles away , it means an awful lot to many people in swindon . Your smoke screen doesn't fool me. A lot of people on this forum are very young and gullible , but I've seen this so many times before . I think you will keep the club for a few months whilst thing are going ok , then soon as things start to turn against you , then bye bye off you trot , the same as everyone else.
Just relax an enjoy whatever ride is here whilst it is here, or you may start to worry if one day that the sky is about to fall in............... tomorrow never comes and all that
[quote][p][bold]Davethered[/bold] wrote: Right , time to get real , he hasn't got any money to invest , hence putting £1.2 million in to get FL approval for a takeover , the taking it all back out a couple of weeks later. He is using this club as a toy to play with whilst he lives in switzerland. The only way he'll manage to keep the club afloat is by selling his best players in the transfer windows. You cannot run a football club with 2/3 people at the helm. You need a team off the field as well as on the field. As for ground improvements , what if we had high wind and that horrible old roof on the town end blew off . You can't always rely on insurance payouts. You need someone with money to invest in the infrastructure as well as the team. This club is not a toy to be played with from hundreds of miles away , it means an awful lot to many people in swindon . Your smoke screen doesn't fool me. A lot of people on this forum are very young and gullible , but I've seen this so many times before . I think you will keep the club for a few months whilst thing are going ok , then soon as things start to turn against you , then bye bye off you trot , the same as everyone else.[/p][/quote]Just relax an enjoy whatever ride is here whilst it is here, or you may start to worry if one day that the sky is about to fall in............... tomorrow never comes and all that Cleuso

11:42am Sat 7 Dec 13

glenda hoddle says...

To much burring head in sand imo. Anyone really believe swindon would be 7th in the table and 1/4 finals on league trophy without the Tottenham connection. After the mess the ego maniac left behind. I dont think so.
To much burring head in sand imo. Anyone really believe swindon would be 7th in the table and 1/4 finals on league trophy without the Tottenham connection. After the mess the ego maniac left behind. I dont think so. glenda hoddle

12:47pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Old-Stager, Hilperton says...

glenda hoddle wrote:
London Red wrote:
Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year
London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.
Stangely enough Glenda, I think Ryan Harley has been very good in the last two games, and in my opinion he is just as good as Alex Pritchard and Ryan Mason.
It just shows how different players divide our opinions.
[quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year[/p][/quote]London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.[/p][/quote]Stangely enough Glenda, I think Ryan Harley has been very good in the last two games, and in my opinion he is just as good as Alex Pritchard and Ryan Mason. It just shows how different players divide our opinions. Old-Stager, Hilperton

12:51pm Sat 7 Dec 13

jayden says...

Brainy_G93 wrote:
What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?
Eats cheese ,plays with his knife ,takes in the air ,looks at his money . If you go to ww.i. don't give a toss . com they will tell you a list of his preference in cheeses in no particular order.
[quote][p][bold]Brainy_G93[/bold] wrote: What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?[/p][/quote]Eats cheese ,plays with his knife ,takes in the air ,looks at his money . If you go to ww.i. don't give a toss . com they will tell you a list of his preference in cheeses in no particular order. jayden

12:58pm Sat 7 Dec 13

jayden says...

Old-Stager, Hilperton wrote:
glenda hoddle wrote:
London Red wrote:
Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year
London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.
Stangely enough Glenda, I think Ryan Harley has been very good in the last two games, and in my opinion he is just as good as Alex Pritchard and Ryan Mason.
It just shows how different players divide our opinions.
Yep agree with you OSH also thought we were in the semi final of the paint pot having beat W.W in the quarter final.
[quote][p][bold]Old-Stager, Hilperton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year[/p][/quote]London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.[/p][/quote]Stangely enough Glenda, I think Ryan Harley has been very good in the last two games, and in my opinion he is just as good as Alex Pritchard and Ryan Mason. It just shows how different players divide our opinions.[/p][/quote]Yep agree with you OSH also thought we were in the semi final of the paint pot having beat W.W in the quarter final. jayden

1:08pm Sat 7 Dec 13

buckobassettboy says...

glenda hoddle wrote:
To much burring head in sand imo. Anyone really believe swindon would be 7th in the table and 1/4 finals on league trophy without the Tottenham connection. After the mess the ego maniac left behind. I dont think so.
The ego maniac got us out of div 2,made a club that was in the doldrums just a tad more exciting,increased the gates and generally got the townfolk interested in their team again.Nobody was moaning during his tenure-and he was not in charge of the finances so it was not his mess.He spent money that was made available to him-no more than that.His job was to run the team and results in general speak volumes that he was doing his job.
The current and previous owner have no long term interest in this club-speculators,ven
ture capitalists,carpet baggers-call it what you will.I will give Power 2 years max.
[quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: To much burring head in sand imo. Anyone really believe swindon would be 7th in the table and 1/4 finals on league trophy without the Tottenham connection. After the mess the ego maniac left behind. I dont think so.[/p][/quote]The ego maniac got us out of div 2,made a club that was in the doldrums just a tad more exciting,increased the gates and generally got the townfolk interested in their team again.Nobody was moaning during his tenure-and he was not in charge of the finances so it was not his mess.He spent money that was made available to him-no more than that.His job was to run the team and results in general speak volumes that he was doing his job. The current and previous owner have no long term interest in this club-speculators,ven ture capitalists,carpet baggers-call it what you will.I will give Power 2 years max. buckobassettboy

1:11pm Sat 7 Dec 13

dazzastfc says...

Robinonfire wrote:
Im looking into Powers crystal ball
L1/L2 Football for ever.
Loan players for ever
Always sell your best players.
Sell club in 2/3 years make big profit.
HOW WILL YOU MAKE A PROFIT...
STFC have a £3. MILLION sell on bill with Black ..
So if we are still in L1/L2 Football for ever.AS YOU PUT IT the club will be worth in 2/3 years very little as other clubs will progress..

As we have all said the club are still in big debt from are time when pdc was in charge as the money given to players on long term contract plus all the pay-offs are still a massive burden on the budget and it will be until next season
[quote][p][bold]Robinonfire[/bold] wrote: Im looking into Powers crystal ball L1/L2 Football for ever. Loan players for ever Always sell your best players. Sell club in 2/3 years make big profit.[/p][/quote]HOW WILL YOU MAKE A PROFIT... STFC have a £3. MILLION sell on bill with Black .. So if we are still in L1/L2 Football for ever.AS YOU PUT IT the club will be worth in 2/3 years very little as other clubs will progress.. As we have all said the club are still in big debt from are time when pdc was in charge as the money given to players on long term contract plus all the pay-offs are still a massive burden on the budget and it will be until next season dazzastfc

1:44pm Sat 7 Dec 13

jayden says...

Least we won't lose today , only money!
Least we won't lose today , only money! jayden

1:59pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Jeremy Hilary Boob says...

Just can't see how Championship football is sustainable in a ground that barely hold 14,000 and that includes the Bank.

18 out of the current FLC teams have an average attendance of over 14k, and commonsense dictates that you can't average more than 14k in a crowd that only holds 14k. Even selling out every week would be a struggle because the likes of Barnsley aren't a draw and don't bring many away fans.

Unless the town redevelop the CG (and on its current location on the site that's very difficult) or move, we will never be able to survive in the FLC. And even if a multi-millionaire wanted to build us a new ground the Adver would simply latch onto those fans who want to stay at the "historic" CG.
Just can't see how Championship football is sustainable in a ground that barely hold 14,000 and that includes the Bank. 18 out of the current FLC teams have an average attendance of over 14k, and commonsense dictates that you can't average more than 14k in a crowd that only holds 14k. Even selling out every week would be a struggle because the likes of Barnsley aren't a draw and don't bring many away fans. Unless the town redevelop the CG (and on its current location on the site that's very difficult) or move, we will never be able to survive in the FLC. And even if a multi-millionaire wanted to build us a new ground the Adver would simply latch onto those fans who want to stay at the "historic" CG. Jeremy Hilary Boob

2:22pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Jeremy Hilary Boob says...

London Red wrote:
I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that
.
Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back
.
So is Power that wrong???
.
The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount
.
If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here!
.
The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that
.
As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
We won't make a profit in the FLC, unless we went up with the strategy of not spending the £4m and then using it to strengthen the club (more so the infrastructure than the playing side) and accepting relegation as a likely consequence (Palace seem to be doing something similar in the PL).

18 out of the current 24 teams in the FLC average more than 14,000 a game. The CG barely holds that - even selling out every week (unlikely given the travelling support of the likes of Barnsley, not to mention their lack of appeal to casual Town fans). So we'd be at best the 19th best supported team in the division.

At present, the Town are probably punching slightly above their weight in terms of resources to league position. In the FLC we'd be competing with teams pulling in 25,000 every week in modern, revenue-generating stadiums, not one holding 14,000 with an open end and hardly any facilities. Plus there are teams getting PL parachute payments.

All of this drives up costs, so costs could easily be £4m higher if you're making any attempt to stay up. Then you risk being lumbered with contracts you can't pay when you get relegated after the first season.

And, if we compare the Town's likely FLC resources with most of the division, it's obvious we can't compete. So at best you resort to survival football, as under McMahon back in the late 90s - boring for the current fans and the results and style are unlikely to attract many new ones.

If the CG held 20,000 then we'd have a chance because you can at least cash in on good runs, largely travelling support or big cup matches. But it doesn't and we can't.

Power's obviously got more money than any of us, and fair play to him for getting involved, but I cannot see how STFC is sustainable in the FLC at all.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated[/p][/quote]We won't make a profit in the FLC, unless we went up with the strategy of not spending the £4m and then using it to strengthen the club (more so the infrastructure than the playing side) and accepting relegation as a likely consequence (Palace seem to be doing something similar in the PL). 18 out of the current 24 teams in the FLC average more than 14,000 a game. The CG barely holds that - even selling out every week (unlikely given the travelling support of the likes of Barnsley, not to mention their lack of appeal to casual Town fans). So we'd be at best the 19th best supported team in the division. At present, the Town are probably punching slightly above their weight in terms of resources to league position. In the FLC we'd be competing with teams pulling in 25,000 every week in modern, revenue-generating stadiums, not one holding 14,000 with an open end and hardly any facilities. Plus there are teams getting PL parachute payments. All of this drives up costs, so costs could easily be £4m higher if you're making any attempt to stay up. Then you risk being lumbered with contracts you can't pay when you get relegated after the first season. And, if we compare the Town's likely FLC resources with most of the division, it's obvious we can't compete. So at best you resort to survival football, as under McMahon back in the late 90s - boring for the current fans and the results and style are unlikely to attract many new ones. If the CG held 20,000 then we'd have a chance because you can at least cash in on good runs, largely travelling support or big cup matches. But it doesn't and we can't. Power's obviously got more money than any of us, and fair play to him for getting involved, but I cannot see how STFC is sustainable in the FLC at all. Jeremy Hilary Boob

3:07pm Sat 7 Dec 13

london paolo says...

Positives about Power - he's a football man, the Tottenham/Sherwood connection, and we will now be spared the endless **** from Jedda.

Negatives - no ground development, a dubious business record leaving creditors in the lurch, and doesn't even want to seek new investors (which will be extremely difficult anyway, it anyone taking over first has to stump up £3m to Black/Betfair just as an ante). And the board consists of someone who can be here only for 90 days a year, an Indian lady who knows nothing about football and thought Jed was 'transparent', and an accountant ( we certainly need the last one).

More worrying is talk of next season's budget being slashed to £1.5m. The target for this season was £2.4m and that was more than break-even. You can always aim to squeeze a profit on paper by slashing costs, but will revenue (i.e. attendances) stay the same? I know Yeovil did it, but you will have to be exceptionally lucky to get out of League 1 with a playing budget of £1.5m, and if we struggle instead, gates and revenue will fall. Seems like he wants us to be a farm club for Spurs.

Got no choice but to give him a chance, but it's hard to feel wildly optimistic in the new place we find ourselves in.
Positives about Power - he's a football man, the Tottenham/Sherwood connection, and we will now be spared the endless **** from Jedda. Negatives - no ground development, a dubious business record leaving creditors in the lurch, and doesn't even want to seek new investors (which will be extremely difficult anyway, it anyone taking over first has to stump up £3m to Black/Betfair just as an ante). And the board consists of someone who can be here only for 90 days a year, an Indian lady who knows nothing about football and thought Jed was 'transparent', and an accountant ( we certainly need the last one). More worrying is talk of next season's budget being slashed to £1.5m. The target for this season was £2.4m and that was more than break-even. You can always aim to squeeze a profit on paper by slashing costs, but will revenue (i.e. attendances) stay the same? I know Yeovil did it, but you will have to be exceptionally lucky to get out of League 1 with a playing budget of £1.5m, and if we struggle instead, gates and revenue will fall. Seems like he wants us to be a farm club for Spurs. Got no choice but to give him a chance, but it's hard to feel wildly optimistic in the new place we find ourselves in. london paolo

3:16pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

buckobassettboy wrote:
glenda hoddle wrote:
To much burring head in sand imo. Anyone really believe swindon would be 7th in the table and 1/4 finals on league trophy without the Tottenham connection. After the mess the ego maniac left behind. I dont think so.
The ego maniac got us out of div 2,made a club that was in the doldrums just a tad more exciting,increased the gates and generally got the townfolk interested in their team again.Nobody was moaning during his tenure-and he was not in charge of the finances so it was not his mess.He spent money that was made available to him-no more than that.His job was to run the team and results in general speak volumes that he was doing his job.
The current and previous owner have no long term interest in this club-speculators,ven

ture capitalists,carpet baggers-call it what you will.I will give Power 2 years max.
bucko, there were plenty of us saying that PDC needed to rein in his constant aggressive demands for more money. Other people told us to shut up. We shouldn't dare criticise him, they said, for fear that he would up sticks and head for a job at a higher level. The infatuation with PDC was so great that he was soon bigger than the club in many people's eyes. Jeremy Wray, once everybody's hero, gets a lot of stick (probably deserved) for indulging PDC but he was only carrying out the wishes of the majority of fans.

Yes, PDC's job was to run the team, not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. We all enjoyed the excitement of his era. Pity it came at such a cost.

As for Power, I like what I hear. None of the grandiose and obvious bullshiit of his predecessor, no inane illiterate ramblings on Twitter etc, just a commonsense realistic approach. We can't know what sort of job he'll make of it. I certainly have some misgivings but I don't think he could have got off to a better start.
[quote][p][bold]buckobassettboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: To much burring head in sand imo. Anyone really believe swindon would be 7th in the table and 1/4 finals on league trophy without the Tottenham connection. After the mess the ego maniac left behind. I dont think so.[/p][/quote]The ego maniac got us out of div 2,made a club that was in the doldrums just a tad more exciting,increased the gates and generally got the townfolk interested in their team again.Nobody was moaning during his tenure-and he was not in charge of the finances so it was not his mess.He spent money that was made available to him-no more than that.His job was to run the team and results in general speak volumes that he was doing his job. The current and previous owner have no long term interest in this club-speculators,ven ture capitalists,carpet baggers-call it what you will.I will give Power 2 years max.[/p][/quote]bucko, there were plenty of us saying that PDC needed to rein in his constant aggressive demands for more money. Other people told us to shut up. We shouldn't dare criticise him, they said, for fear that he would up sticks and head for a job at a higher level. The infatuation with PDC was so great that he was soon bigger than the club in many people's eyes. Jeremy Wray, once everybody's hero, gets a lot of stick (probably deserved) for indulging PDC but he was only carrying out the wishes of the majority of fans. Yes, PDC's job was to run the team, not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. We all enjoyed the excitement of his era. Pity it came at such a cost. As for Power, I like what I hear. None of the grandiose and obvious bullshiit of his predecessor, no inane illiterate ramblings on Twitter etc, just a commonsense realistic approach. We can't know what sort of job he'll make of it. I certainly have some misgivings but I don't think he could have got off to a better start. Oi Den!

3:26pm Sat 7 Dec 13

STFCman&boy1973 says...

Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that
.
Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back
.
So is Power that wrong???
.
The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount
.
If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here!
.
The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that
.
As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
We won't make a profit in the FLC, unless we went up with the strategy of not spending the £4m and then using it to strengthen the club (more so the infrastructure than the playing side) and accepting relegation as a likely consequence (Palace seem to be doing something similar in the PL).

18 out of the current 24 teams in the FLC average more than 14,000 a game. The CG barely holds that - even selling out every week (unlikely given the travelling support of the likes of Barnsley, not to mention their lack of appeal to casual Town fans). So we'd be at best the 19th best supported team in the division.

At present, the Town are probably punching slightly above their weight in terms of resources to league position. In the FLC we'd be competing with teams pulling in 25,000 every week in modern, revenue-generating stadiums, not one holding 14,000 with an open end and hardly any facilities. Plus there are teams getting PL parachute payments.

All of this drives up costs, so costs could easily be £4m higher if you're making any attempt to stay up. Then you risk being lumbered with contracts you can't pay when you get relegated after the first season.

And, if we compare the Town's likely FLC resources with most of the division, it's obvious we can't compete. So at best you resort to survival football, as under McMahon back in the late 90s - boring for the current fans and the results and style are unlikely to attract many new ones.

If the CG held 20,000 then we'd have a chance because you can at least cash in on good runs, largely travelling support or big cup matches. But it doesn't and we can't.

Power's obviously got more money than any of us, and fair play to him for getting involved, but I cannot see how STFC is sustainable in the FLC at all.
Don't forget we couldn't make it to the prem to with a small stadium, small budget, etc. etc.

But we did compete, and win our rightful place in the top league...

Very happy with sustainable football...


COYMRs
[quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated[/p][/quote]We won't make a profit in the FLC, unless we went up with the strategy of not spending the £4m and then using it to strengthen the club (more so the infrastructure than the playing side) and accepting relegation as a likely consequence (Palace seem to be doing something similar in the PL). 18 out of the current 24 teams in the FLC average more than 14,000 a game. The CG barely holds that - even selling out every week (unlikely given the travelling support of the likes of Barnsley, not to mention their lack of appeal to casual Town fans). So we'd be at best the 19th best supported team in the division. At present, the Town are probably punching slightly above their weight in terms of resources to league position. In the FLC we'd be competing with teams pulling in 25,000 every week in modern, revenue-generating stadiums, not one holding 14,000 with an open end and hardly any facilities. Plus there are teams getting PL parachute payments. All of this drives up costs, so costs could easily be £4m higher if you're making any attempt to stay up. Then you risk being lumbered with contracts you can't pay when you get relegated after the first season. And, if we compare the Town's likely FLC resources with most of the division, it's obvious we can't compete. So at best you resort to survival football, as under McMahon back in the late 90s - boring for the current fans and the results and style are unlikely to attract many new ones. If the CG held 20,000 then we'd have a chance because you can at least cash in on good runs, largely travelling support or big cup matches. But it doesn't and we can't. Power's obviously got more money than any of us, and fair play to him for getting involved, but I cannot see how STFC is sustainable in the FLC at all.[/p][/quote]Don't forget we couldn't make it to the prem to with a small stadium, small budget, etc. etc. But we did compete, and win our rightful place in the top league... Very happy with sustainable football... COYMRs STFCman&boy1973

5:38pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Jeremy Hilary Boob says...

STFCman&boy1973 wrote:
Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that
.
Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back
.
So is Power that wrong???
.
The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount
.
If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here!
.
The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that
.
As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated
We won't make a profit in the FLC, unless we went up with the strategy of not spending the £4m and then using it to strengthen the club (more so the infrastructure than the playing side) and accepting relegation as a likely consequence (Palace seem to be doing something similar in the PL).

18 out of the current 24 teams in the FLC average more than 14,000 a game. The CG barely holds that - even selling out every week (unlikely given the travelling support of the likes of Barnsley, not to mention their lack of appeal to casual Town fans). So we'd be at best the 19th best supported team in the division.

At present, the Town are probably punching slightly above their weight in terms of resources to league position. In the FLC we'd be competing with teams pulling in 25,000 every week in modern, revenue-generating stadiums, not one holding 14,000 with an open end and hardly any facilities. Plus there are teams getting PL parachute payments.

All of this drives up costs, so costs could easily be £4m higher if you're making any attempt to stay up. Then you risk being lumbered with contracts you can't pay when you get relegated after the first season.

And, if we compare the Town's likely FLC resources with most of the division, it's obvious we can't compete. So at best you resort to survival football, as under McMahon back in the late 90s - boring for the current fans and the results and style are unlikely to attract many new ones.

If the CG held 20,000 then we'd have a chance because you can at least cash in on good runs, largely travelling support or big cup matches. But it doesn't and we can't.

Power's obviously got more money than any of us, and fair play to him for getting involved, but I cannot see how STFC is sustainable in the FLC at all.
Don't forget we couldn't make it to the prem to with a small stadium, small budget, etc. etc.

But we did compete, and win our rightful place in the top league...

Very happy with sustainable football...


COYMRs
That was 20 years ago. Back then, the PL was still the old 1st Division under a new name, not the worldwide brand it is today. We were just the latest in an occasional list of small teams who made it to the top division - Carlisle, Northampton, Orient, etc. Wimbledon being perhaps the only ones who didn't go straight back down again, and we'll almost never see that sort of thing happen ever again. Even Swansea, who are small team by PL standards, are averaging 20,000 every week.

Few or no clubs had reacted to the sort of money they were starting to make thanks to Sky: Liverpool advertised for a commercial manager in the first year of the PL and it literally sounded like a glorified club shop manager. And that was Liverpool - probably still the biggest or second biggest team in the country. The problem is, for the Town, the commercial manager's job today is probably little more than a glorified club shop manager because the sort of deals we chasing after are miniscule compared to the ones some of the PL teams are getting.

Given the huge financial difference in the PL back then compared to now, claiming that "we did it before, we can do it again" is not really any different to a fan of, say, Glossop North End, Darwen or Accrington claiming in 1990 that "we were a First Division club before, we can do it again." I'm sorry, but I just don't think you can compare the PL we were promoted to in 1993 with the PL today.

Like you, I'm happy with sustainable football. It's better than a high-risk strategy of shooting for the moon and doing a Pompey. But, I just do not see how STFC can be sustainable in the FLC when our ground is smaller than the **average** attendance of 3/4 of the division. We'd need a mega-rich chairman, a ground that has so many more commercial opportunities than others than it makes up for the shortfall in capacity, or a Crewe-style youth system that has a conveyer belt of kids we can play or sell for a big profit. We currently have none of those things.

These are the sorts of questions that the Adver should be asking rather than blindly sitting there nodding away when the Jed/Power/the next one talks about making the club sustainable and how they're aiming for the FLC and even the PL - without anything happening on the ground front it's all just pie in the sky.
[quote][p][bold]STFCman&boy1973[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: I've been saying for years we would make a profit if we went up and still stand by that . Fitton said the same and in recent posts on another site Wray had reiterated that he thought we would too and said had we done it Black would have started to get a return on his investment - plus club as whole worth more to sell for him o get it all back . So is Power that wrong??? . The Championship is worth at least £4m more a season and possibly more going forward - the only way you can not be making a profit is if you increase your wage bill by over that amount . If we are down to £2m next year and go up - why do we need to triple it to survive???? Especially as the core would already be here! . The link to Spurs is too overplayed - yes we got some loans in at the beginning but after that we started getting players from all over showing his links and connections: Tijane, Smith, Belford, Kassim, Harley, Ranger, N'Guessan, Ajose, El Gabbas, Godwin and this other unnamed CB we bid on clearly shows that . As he said judge him in 5 years not 5 mins. Very impressed with transfer window 1 - lets see what 2, 3 and beyond bring and if they are Spurs dominated[/p][/quote]We won't make a profit in the FLC, unless we went up with the strategy of not spending the £4m and then using it to strengthen the club (more so the infrastructure than the playing side) and accepting relegation as a likely consequence (Palace seem to be doing something similar in the PL). 18 out of the current 24 teams in the FLC average more than 14,000 a game. The CG barely holds that - even selling out every week (unlikely given the travelling support of the likes of Barnsley, not to mention their lack of appeal to casual Town fans). So we'd be at best the 19th best supported team in the division. At present, the Town are probably punching slightly above their weight in terms of resources to league position. In the FLC we'd be competing with teams pulling in 25,000 every week in modern, revenue-generating stadiums, not one holding 14,000 with an open end and hardly any facilities. Plus there are teams getting PL parachute payments. All of this drives up costs, so costs could easily be £4m higher if you're making any attempt to stay up. Then you risk being lumbered with contracts you can't pay when you get relegated after the first season. And, if we compare the Town's likely FLC resources with most of the division, it's obvious we can't compete. So at best you resort to survival football, as under McMahon back in the late 90s - boring for the current fans and the results and style are unlikely to attract many new ones. If the CG held 20,000 then we'd have a chance because you can at least cash in on good runs, largely travelling support or big cup matches. But it doesn't and we can't. Power's obviously got more money than any of us, and fair play to him for getting involved, but I cannot see how STFC is sustainable in the FLC at all.[/p][/quote]Don't forget we couldn't make it to the prem to with a small stadium, small budget, etc. etc. But we did compete, and win our rightful place in the top league... Very happy with sustainable football... COYMRs[/p][/quote]That was 20 years ago. Back then, the PL was still the old 1st Division under a new name, not the worldwide brand it is today. We were just the latest in an occasional list of small teams who made it to the top division - Carlisle, Northampton, Orient, etc. Wimbledon being perhaps the only ones who didn't go straight back down again, and we'll almost never see that sort of thing happen ever again. Even Swansea, who are small team by PL standards, are averaging 20,000 every week. Few or no clubs had reacted to the sort of money they were starting to make thanks to Sky: Liverpool advertised for a commercial manager in the first year of the PL and it literally sounded like a glorified club shop manager. And that was Liverpool - probably still the biggest or second biggest team in the country. The problem is, for the Town, the commercial manager's job today is probably little more than a glorified club shop manager because the sort of deals we chasing after are miniscule compared to the ones some of the PL teams are getting. Given the huge financial difference in the PL back then compared to now, claiming that "we did it before, we can do it again" is not really any different to a fan of, say, Glossop North End, Darwen or Accrington claiming in 1990 that "we were a First Division club before, we can do it again." I'm sorry, but I just don't think you can compare the PL we were promoted to in 1993 with the PL today. Like you, I'm happy with sustainable football. It's better than a high-risk strategy of shooting for the moon and doing a Pompey. But, I just do not see how STFC can be sustainable in the FLC when our ground is smaller than the **average** attendance of 3/4 of the division. We'd need a mega-rich chairman, a ground that has so many more commercial opportunities than others than it makes up for the shortfall in capacity, or a Crewe-style youth system that has a conveyer belt of kids we can play or sell for a big profit. We currently have none of those things. These are the sorts of questions that the Adver should be asking rather than blindly sitting there nodding away when the Jed/Power/the next one talks about making the club sustainable and how they're aiming for the FLC and even the PL - without anything happening on the ground front it's all just pie in the sky. Jeremy Hilary Boob

7:07pm Sat 7 Dec 13

jayden says...

jayden wrote:
Brainy_G93 wrote:
What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?
Eats cheese ,plays with his knife ,takes in the air ,looks at his money . If you go to ww.i. don't give a toss . com they will tell you a list of his preference in cheeses in no particular order.
Also he can yodel or listen to his cuckoo clock 6480 times , one would never get sick of that........wait for it ..........CUCKOO , and if he got fed up with that he could multi post on here ............CUCKOO ... .
[quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brainy_G93[/bold] wrote: What does he do the 275 days he's in Switzerland? And in that time we'll just have the accountant in the board meetings by herself?[/p][/quote]Eats cheese ,plays with his knife ,takes in the air ,looks at his money . If you go to ww.i. don't give a toss . com they will tell you a list of his preference in cheeses in no particular order.[/p][/quote]Also he can yodel or listen to his cuckoo clock 6480 times , one would never get sick of that........wait for it ..........CUCKOO , and if he got fed up with that he could multi post on here ............CUCKOO ... . jayden

8:08pm Sat 7 Dec 13

dazzastfc says...

Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY dazzastfc

8:20pm Sat 7 Dec 13

old town robin says...

glenda hoddle wrote:
London Red wrote:
Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year
London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.
What are you talking about that Hartley has been poor the last two games, he played very well against Carlisle. I can't say how he played against Crawley as I wasn't there, but playing with a 10 man defence is hardly going to suit his style of play is it!

Don't understand why you would want to pick on him, he's a very good player that's on his way back after injury, so is mason, both will get better as they get more fit.
[quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year[/p][/quote]London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.[/p][/quote]What are you talking about that Hartley has been poor the last two games, he played very well against Carlisle. I can't say how he played against Crawley as I wasn't there, but playing with a 10 man defence is hardly going to suit his style of play is it! Don't understand why you would want to pick on him, he's a very good player that's on his way back after injury, so is mason, both will get better as they get more fit. old town robin

8:32pm Sat 7 Dec 13

glenda hoddle says...

old town robin wrote:
glenda hoddle wrote:
London Red wrote: Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year
London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.
What are you talking about that Hartley has been poor the last two games, he played very well against Carlisle. I can't say how he played against Crawley as I wasn't there, but playing with a 10 man defence is hardly going to suit his style of play is it! Don't understand why you would want to pick on him, he's a very good player that's on his way back after injury, so is mason, both will get better as they get more fit.
Aint picking on harley at all. Just my opinion. He dont lace pritchard and masons boot im afraid.
[quote][p][bold]old town robin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]glenda hoddle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Exactly he named 2 STFC players in that list! . Don't care where they came from as once you sign on the dotted line you are all the same - Luongo and Byrne are the same as Wes, Thompson, Kassim, N'Guessan and Ranger (who all would argue about the others being the best in the team!) . Yes Mason and Pritchard are good - but as we have seen we can still do well without them in the team as we have others about ie Harley . Power addressed this link in his interview and stated the same that there is not one as such and we have links and connection all over the place which my list above showed . 5 ex Spurs against 25 non ex Spurs shows they are only a small portion of our squad and was a shirt term option - I very much doubt we will have 4 on loan again next year[/p][/quote]London red. Please dont put harley in the same sentence as pritchard and Mason. Harley been poor in his last two games.[/p][/quote]What are you talking about that Hartley has been poor the last two games, he played very well against Carlisle. I can't say how he played against Crawley as I wasn't there, but playing with a 10 man defence is hardly going to suit his style of play is it! Don't understand why you would want to pick on him, he's a very good player that's on his way back after injury, so is mason, both will get better as they get more fit.[/p][/quote]Aint picking on harley at all. Just my opinion. He dont lace pritchard and masons boot im afraid. glenda hoddle

9:06pm Sat 7 Dec 13

stfc2012 says...

dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Post of the day.
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Post of the day. stfc2012

9:12pm Sat 7 Dec 13

jayden says...

dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron. jayden

9:20pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

jayden wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....
[quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.[/p][/quote]Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up.... Steve. Brentford

9:51pm Sat 7 Dec 13

jayden says...

Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....
Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.
[quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.[/p][/quote]Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....[/p][/quote]Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season. jayden

10:00pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.
Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties. Oi Den!

10:08pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

jayden wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....
Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.
Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot.
You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O)
PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.
[quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.[/p][/quote]Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....[/p][/quote]Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.[/p][/quote]Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot. You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O) PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage. Steve. Brentford

10:23pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.
Haha i think the alcohol played it`s part in my post anyway Den.
It would be nice to actually meet you as well Den, put a face to
face as they say.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.[/p][/quote]Haha i think the alcohol played it`s part in my post anyway Den. It would be nice to actually meet you as well Den, put a face to face as they say. Steve. Brentford

10:34pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

Steve. Brentford wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.
Haha i think the alcohol played it`s part in my post anyway Den.
It would be nice to actually meet you as well Den, put a face to
face as they say.
Face to the face, who says that....
[quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.[/p][/quote]Haha i think the alcohol played it`s part in my post anyway Den. It would be nice to actually meet you as well Den, put a face to face as they say.[/p][/quote]Face to the face, who says that.... Steve. Brentford

9:28am Sun 8 Dec 13

dazzastfc says...

Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....
Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.
Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot.
You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O)
PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.
Hows things you PAIR of crazy mad barsteward..

I DID knock one out last night as it happens..
ITS WAS GOOD !!! It was real good ..

O! CRESSY WHATS WRONG WITH MY PSEILLNIG.....
ok its a bit like a infants but i like it...

hope 2 see you both soon...I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT DAY
[quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.[/p][/quote]Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....[/p][/quote]Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.[/p][/quote]Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot. You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O) PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.[/p][/quote]Hows things you PAIR of crazy mad barsteward.. I DID knock one out last night as it happens.. ITS WAS GOOD !!! It was real good .. O! CRESSY WHATS WRONG WITH MY PSEILLNIG..... ok its a bit like a infants but i like it... hope 2 see you both soon...I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT DAY dazzastfc

11:15am Sun 8 Dec 13

umpcah says...

dazzastfc wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....
Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.
Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot.
You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O)
PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.
Hows things you PAIR of crazy mad barsteward..

I DID knock one out last night as it happens..
ITS WAS GOOD !!! It was real good ..

O! CRESSY WHATS WRONG WITH MY PSEILLNIG.....
ok its a bit like a infants but i like it...

hope 2 see you both soon...I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT DAY
STEVE : You and Daz are getting shocking !
[quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.[/p][/quote]Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....[/p][/quote]Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.[/p][/quote]Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot. You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O) PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.[/p][/quote]Hows things you PAIR of crazy mad barsteward.. I DID knock one out last night as it happens.. ITS WAS GOOD !!! It was real good .. O! CRESSY WHATS WRONG WITH MY PSEILLNIG..... ok its a bit like a infants but i like it... hope 2 see you both soon...I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT DAY[/p][/quote]STEVE : You and Daz are getting shocking ! umpcah

11:19am Sun 8 Dec 13

umpcah says...

umpcah wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
jayden wrote:
dazzastfc wrote:
Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium...
ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE..
This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks...
How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??..
and building work is alot faster than it used to be....
WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY
Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.
Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....
Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.
Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot.
You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O)
PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.
Hows things you PAIR of crazy mad barsteward..

I DID knock one out last night as it happens..
ITS WAS GOOD !!! It was real good ..

O! CRESSY WHATS WRONG WITH MY PSEILLNIG.....
ok its a bit like a infants but i like it...

hope 2 see you both soon...I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT DAY
STEVE : You and Daz are getting shocking !
Di Canio for Brentford ?
[quote][p][bold]umpcah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dazzastfc[/bold] wrote: Why al the quote regarding the size of the stadium... ONE STEP AT A TIME..NUILD ON A TEAM THAT MIGHT GET USE THERE.. This now a day is not a problem as you could build a new stand in weeks... How long did it take to take down the old southside stand and rebuild it ??.. and building work is alot faster than it used to be.... WELL I THINK IT IS ANYWAY[/p][/quote]Yes Dazz pass the 4x2 we will knock one up before tea time ,Oh matron.[/p][/quote]Ha he might knock one out before tea-time dont know knock one up....[/p][/quote]Nice one Steve , how's it going mate ? Looking forward to a match together at some stage this season.[/p][/quote]Same as that mate, lets get the Ranger thing out the way and i will be down,although i will be attending the Brentford v Swindon match on Boxing day with family and friends after they put me on the spot. You can get to meet my old mucker Dazza just dont ask him to spell the name of the road we are going to meet at :O) PS hope you and the family are well mate see you in January at some stage.[/p][/quote]Hows things you PAIR of crazy mad barsteward.. I DID knock one out last night as it happens.. ITS WAS GOOD !!! It was real good .. O! CRESSY WHATS WRONG WITH MY PSEILLNIG..... ok its a bit like a infants but i like it... hope 2 see you both soon...I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT DAY[/p][/quote]STEVE : You and Daz are getting shocking ![/p][/quote]Di Canio for Brentford ? umpcah

11:24am Sun 8 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

Steve. Brentford wrote:
Steve. Brentford wrote:
Oi Den! wrote:
Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.
Haha i think the alcohol played it`s part in my post anyway Den.
It would be nice to actually meet you as well Den, put a face to
face as they say.
Face to the face, who says that....
Steve, I'm usually in the Swiss Chalet before home games. Would be glad to meet for a pint when you're next down here.
[quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Steve. Brentford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Nice one Steve. Gave me a good chuckle anyway. Mind you the alcohol could be dulling the critical faculties.[/p][/quote]Haha i think the alcohol played it`s part in my post anyway Den. It would be nice to actually meet you as well Den, put a face to face as they say.[/p][/quote]Face to the face, who says that....[/p][/quote]Steve, I'm usually in the Swiss Chalet before home games. Would be glad to meet for a pint when you're next down here. Oi Den!

12:02pm Sun 8 Dec 13

London Red says...

Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects! London Red

1:04pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Pardon?
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Pardon? Steve. Brentford

1:56pm Sun 8 Dec 13

buckobassettboy says...

London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Just have a look at the Championship table and you see all you need to see about the fantastic success Doncaster and Yeovil are having by not having a competitive budget/playing staff.I reckon both will be lucky to avoid the drop.I know we haven't got a rich benefactor so we are stuck-but that is exactly what you need to get you up there-followed by strong continual investment and fixing players wages at a sensible level.
The day STFC has a ground to call their own-freehold-is the day STFC will start to move forward.Some chance with Thamesdown-look what they did to Mannington Wreck and other football pitches where a new Sir Don might have been unearthed.Thamesdown have no interest in Swindon Town FC-or football in general.In my humble opinion,that is the main problem and stumbling block for potential investors.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Just have a look at the Championship table and you see all you need to see about the fantastic success Doncaster and Yeovil are having by not having a competitive budget/playing staff.I reckon both will be lucky to avoid the drop.I know we haven't got a rich benefactor so we are stuck-but that is exactly what you need to get you up there-followed by strong continual investment and fixing players wages at a sensible level. The day STFC has a ground to call their own-freehold-is the day STFC will start to move forward.Some chance with Thamesdown-look what they did to Mannington Wreck and other football pitches where a new Sir Don might have been unearthed.Thamesdown have no interest in Swindon Town FC-or football in general.In my humble opinion,that is the main problem and stumbling block for potential investors. buckobassettboy

3:41pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Jeremy Hilary Boob says...

London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental.

I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening.

At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC.
12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m.

But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in.

The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average.

Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible.

It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans.

If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well.

But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it.

Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover.

Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old. Jeremy Hilary Boob

5:15pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.
Good [post JHB, however its a unfortunate fact that Swindon Town FC do not own the CG so we have very little to attract a investor or developer to foot the cost,the other clubs you mentioned had this to barter with and Brentford are just about to do the same due to the price they will get for selling Griffin Park and by building flats on the area that the new ground is to be built. ( unfortunately this is within three or four hundred yards from my house)
[quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.[/p][/quote]Good [post JHB, however its a unfortunate fact that Swindon Town FC do not own the CG so we have very little to attract a investor or developer to foot the cost,the other clubs you mentioned had this to barter with and Brentford are just about to do the same due to the price they will get for selling Griffin Park and by building flats on the area that the new ground is to be built. ( unfortunately this is within three or four hundred yards from my house) Steve. Brentford

5:37pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Buckers30 says...

What needs to be remembered with regards to a new stadium is that our friends down the M4 sat in Elm Park getting 4-6000 per match they get a new stadium and suddenly that has trebled, how or why MK Dons have done what they have done is beyond me.

A 20,000 stadium would suit us ONCE we have stability. If we go up I'd see us getting a average of 12,500 if we managed to stay up then surely that would be enough to convince that a 20K or bigger stadium is viable.

Also surely the way to do it is to bowl the Town End and make it as high as the two sides.
What needs to be remembered with regards to a new stadium is that our friends down the M4 sat in Elm Park getting 4-6000 per match they get a new stadium and suddenly that has trebled, how or why MK Dons have done what they have done is beyond me. A 20,000 stadium would suit us ONCE we have stability. If we go up I'd see us getting a average of 12,500 if we managed to stay up then surely that would be enough to convince that a 20K or bigger stadium is viable. Also surely the way to do it is to bowl the Town End and make it as high as the two sides. Buckers30

5:40pm Sun 8 Dec 13

jayden says...

No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.
No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins. jayden

5:48pm Sun 8 Dec 13

joey butler says...

Very bad news that Ex - West Ham player Montano is in deep trouble for his spot fixing at Oldham. SKY News refers.

He played a few games on loan for Town previously, but is clearly not to be trusted.
Very bad news that Ex - West Ham player Montano is in deep trouble for his spot fixing at Oldham. SKY News refers. He played a few games on loan for Town previously, but is clearly not to be trusted. joey butler

5:51pm Sun 8 Dec 13

jayden says...

joey butler wrote:
Very bad news that Ex - West Ham player Montano is in deep trouble for his spot fixing at Oldham. SKY News refers.

He played a few games on loan for Town previously, but is clearly not to be trusted.
Beat me to that one J.B was just looking at his stats.
[quote][p][bold]joey butler[/bold] wrote: Very bad news that Ex - West Ham player Montano is in deep trouble for his spot fixing at Oldham. SKY News refers. He played a few games on loan for Town previously, but is clearly not to be trusted.[/p][/quote]Beat me to that one J.B was just looking at his stats. jayden

5:57pm Sun 8 Dec 13

jayden says...

jayden wrote:
joey butler wrote:
Very bad news that Ex - West Ham player Montano is in deep trouble for his spot fixing at Oldham. SKY News refers.

He played a few games on loan for Town previously, but is clearly not to be trusted.
Beat me to that one J.B was just looking at his stats.
1 goal in 3 full games 3 sub no bookings .
[quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]joey butler[/bold] wrote: Very bad news that Ex - West Ham player Montano is in deep trouble for his spot fixing at Oldham. SKY News refers. He played a few games on loan for Town previously, but is clearly not to be trusted.[/p][/quote]Beat me to that one J.B was just looking at his stats.[/p][/quote]1 goal in 3 full games 3 sub no bookings . jayden

6:05pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located.

bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.
Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located. bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club. Oi Den!

6:27pm Sun 8 Dec 13

jayden says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located.

bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.
Agree Den the whole town looks a little run down and money needs to be spent else were. If they did rebuild they should look to cater for other sports at the ground as well.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located. bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.[/p][/quote]Agree Den the whole town looks a little run down and money needs to be spent else were. If they did rebuild they should look to cater for other sports at the ground as well. jayden

6:57pm Sun 8 Dec 13

buckobassettboy says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located.

bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.
I agree that STFC is a minority interest-but look in the North-East where the population in Liverpool is around 500,000 thousand but out of that 2 premiership clubs draw gates that we can only dream of.Not so much a council problem-more of the lack of desire and passion of the residents of the Borough of Thamesdown.Your definitely right-the council look at the figures and conclude there is very little interest in STFC.I also concur that Colchester stadium is an utter joke-I live 7 miles away from that White Elephant and whoever designed and located it should have a red hot poker stuck up his/her arse,cold end up so they burn their hands pulling it out.Did you notice the lack of no parking /clearway signs on the approach to the ground?That is a deliberate ploy to catch unsuspecting away fans-and lets face it they need away fans-we were 10% of their gate when we went-and won.Anyway,STFC till I die-regardless.Brent
ford Boxing Day and that is a dump too-but hey,its STFC coming to town.COYR's
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located. bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.[/p][/quote]I agree that STFC is a minority interest-but look in the North-East where the population in Liverpool is around 500,000 thousand but out of that 2 premiership clubs draw gates that we can only dream of.Not so much a council problem-more of the lack of desire and passion of the residents of the Borough of Thamesdown.Your definitely right-the council look at the figures and conclude there is very little interest in STFC.I also concur that Colchester stadium is an utter joke-I live 7 miles away from that White Elephant and whoever designed and located it should have a red hot poker stuck up his/her arse,cold end up so they burn their hands pulling it out.Did you notice the lack of no parking /clearway signs on the approach to the ground?That is a deliberate ploy to catch unsuspecting away fans-and lets face it they need away fans-we were 10% of their gate when we went-and won.Anyway,STFC till I die-regardless.Brent ford Boxing Day and that is a dump too-but hey,its STFC coming to town.COYR's buckobassettboy

7:31pm Sun 8 Dec 13

umpcah says...

jayden wrote:
No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.
Even Charlie Austin doesn`t score in every game !
[quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.[/p][/quote]Even Charlie Austin doesn`t score in every game ! umpcah

7:38pm Sun 8 Dec 13

joey butler says...

Sorry Old Chap, I think you mean Liverpool is in the North West, where it always has been?
Sorry Old Chap, I think you mean Liverpool is in the North West, where it always has been? joey butler

7:47pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Oxon-Red says...

Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental.

I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening.

At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC.
12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m.

But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in.

The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average.

Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible.

It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans.

If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well.

But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it.

Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover.

Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.
I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted.

Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower.

I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league.

IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that.

We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe.

COYMR
[quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.[/p][/quote]I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted. Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower. I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league. IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that. We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe. COYMR Oxon-Red

8:19pm Sun 8 Dec 13

jayden says...

umpcah wrote:
jayden wrote:
No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.
Even Charlie Austin doesn`t score in every game !
ALL RIGHT IT WAS ONLY A UP DATE!
[quote][p][bold]umpcah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.[/p][/quote]Even Charlie Austin doesn`t score in every game ![/p][/quote]ALL RIGHT IT WAS ONLY A UP DATE! jayden

9:00pm Sun 8 Dec 13

jayden says...

jayden wrote:
umpcah wrote:
jayden wrote:
No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.
Even Charlie Austin doesn`t score in every game !
ALL RIGHT IT WAS ONLY A UP DATE!
F.F.S.
[quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]umpcah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jayden[/bold] wrote: No goals today for Kayden in a 2-0 win for O.C he played 90 Mins.[/p][/quote]Even Charlie Austin doesn`t score in every game ![/p][/quote]ALL RIGHT IT WAS ONLY A UP DATE![/p][/quote]F.F.S. jayden

9:13pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

Oxon-Red wrote:
Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental.

I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening.

At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC.
12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m.

But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in.

The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average.

Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible.

It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans.

If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well.

But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it.

Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover.

Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.
I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted.

Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower.

I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league.

IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that.

We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe.

COYMR
Oxon, I doubt there's a club in the land that wouldn't want to buy good players if it could afford them. By the same token, I'm sure every club would want to develop its own players, with all the savings and potential future income that brings. But who knows what the "correct" balance or approach is? If the correct balance was that easily identifiable, everyone would be doing it. A heavy reliance on one policy or the other could produce great success or complete failure. A mixture of the two is equally unpredictable. There's a lot of luck involved. Everyone talks about the benefits of bringing young players through the ranks but it only works if you are lucky/canny enough to spot those that are good enough and who (along with their parents) haven't already been tempted by the bigger clubs.

You'll probably not be surprised to learn that I reckon the best situation is for the club to have strong financial backing, pay the going rate for some good players, while having good development and scouting systems alongside. If you've got all that, I believe you're in with a good shout - but Lady Luck will still have her say in it. Of course we don't have all that, so it's not really a matter of preference for Power. He has little choice.

We've achieved nothing yet this season. Time will tell on that one. I'm not at all sure about the division being stronger than last term. Walsall and Orient are the only sides I've seen that looked particularly strong. I'll stick with my view that a mid-table finish, even in a mediocre division, would be an excellent achievement for Cooper unless we can make three good signings in January - and that's if we don't lose Foderingham or Belford proves a worthy successor.
[quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.[/p][/quote]I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted. Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower. I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league. IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that. We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe. COYMR[/p][/quote]Oxon, I doubt there's a club in the land that wouldn't want to buy good players if it could afford them. By the same token, I'm sure every club would want to develop its own players, with all the savings and potential future income that brings. But who knows what the "correct" balance or approach is? If the correct balance was that easily identifiable, everyone would be doing it. A heavy reliance on one policy or the other could produce great success or complete failure. A mixture of the two is equally unpredictable. There's a lot of luck involved. Everyone talks about the benefits of bringing young players through the ranks but it only works if you are lucky/canny enough to spot those that are good enough and who (along with their parents) haven't already been tempted by the bigger clubs. You'll probably not be surprised to learn that I reckon the best situation is for the club to have strong financial backing, pay the going rate for some good players, while having good development and scouting systems alongside. If you've got all that, I believe you're in with a good shout - but Lady Luck will still have her say in it. Of course we don't have all that, so it's not really a matter of preference for Power. He has little choice. We've achieved nothing yet this season. Time will tell on that one. I'm not at all sure about the division being stronger than last term. Walsall and Orient are the only sides I've seen that looked particularly strong. I'll stick with my view that a mid-table finish, even in a mediocre division, would be an excellent achievement for Cooper unless we can make three good signings in January - and that's if we don't lose Foderingham or Belford proves a worthy successor. Oi Den!

9:37pm Sun 8 Dec 13

joey butler says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Oxon-Red wrote:
Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental.

I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening.

At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC.
12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m.

But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in.

The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average.

Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible.

It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans.

If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well.

But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it.

Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover.

Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.
I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted.

Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower.

I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league.

IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that.

We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe.

COYMR
Oxon, I doubt there's a club in the land that wouldn't want to buy good players if it could afford them. By the same token, I'm sure every club would want to develop its own players, with all the savings and potential future income that brings. But who knows what the "correct" balance or approach is? If the correct balance was that easily identifiable, everyone would be doing it. A heavy reliance on one policy or the other could produce great success or complete failure. A mixture of the two is equally unpredictable. There's a lot of luck involved. Everyone talks about the benefits of bringing young players through the ranks but it only works if you are lucky/canny enough to spot those that are good enough and who (along with their parents) haven't already been tempted by the bigger clubs.

You'll probably not be surprised to learn that I reckon the best situation is for the club to have strong financial backing, pay the going rate for some good players, while having good development and scouting systems alongside. If you've got all that, I believe you're in with a good shout - but Lady Luck will still have her say in it. Of course we don't have all that, so it's not really a matter of preference for Power. He has little choice.

We've achieved nothing yet this season. Time will tell on that one. I'm not at all sure about the division being stronger than last term. Walsall and Orient are the only sides I've seen that looked particularly strong. I'll stick with my view that a mid-table finish, even in a mediocre division, would be an excellent achievement for Cooper unless we can make three good signings in January - and that's if we don't lose Foderingham or Belford proves a worthy successor.
Sorry Den,

But, Fods is sold and gone and has been gone for months. Best bid for him over £500K will secure his services in January, which I have posted on here for several months.

Belford will replace Fods in goal.

And we can then buy Ajose and pay off our share to Palace for Fods.

I actually think Foderingham is heavily over rated, but only time will tell.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.[/p][/quote]I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted. Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower. I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league. IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that. We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe. COYMR[/p][/quote]Oxon, I doubt there's a club in the land that wouldn't want to buy good players if it could afford them. By the same token, I'm sure every club would want to develop its own players, with all the savings and potential future income that brings. But who knows what the "correct" balance or approach is? If the correct balance was that easily identifiable, everyone would be doing it. A heavy reliance on one policy or the other could produce great success or complete failure. A mixture of the two is equally unpredictable. There's a lot of luck involved. Everyone talks about the benefits of bringing young players through the ranks but it only works if you are lucky/canny enough to spot those that are good enough and who (along with their parents) haven't already been tempted by the bigger clubs. You'll probably not be surprised to learn that I reckon the best situation is for the club to have strong financial backing, pay the going rate for some good players, while having good development and scouting systems alongside. If you've got all that, I believe you're in with a good shout - but Lady Luck will still have her say in it. Of course we don't have all that, so it's not really a matter of preference for Power. He has little choice. We've achieved nothing yet this season. Time will tell on that one. I'm not at all sure about the division being stronger than last term. Walsall and Orient are the only sides I've seen that looked particularly strong. I'll stick with my view that a mid-table finish, even in a mediocre division, would be an excellent achievement for Cooper unless we can make three good signings in January - and that's if we don't lose Foderingham or Belford proves a worthy successor.[/p][/quote]Sorry Den, But, Fods is sold and gone and has been gone for months. Best bid for him over £500K will secure his services in January, which I have posted on here for several months. Belford will replace Fods in goal. And we can then buy Ajose and pay off our share to Palace for Fods. I actually think Foderingham is heavily over rated, but only time will tell. joey butler

9:50pm Sun 8 Dec 13

London Red says...

JHB - think you are being far to simple in your calculations as have not taken into account any Sponsorship or Commercial revenue - which will go up if we go up. Are you aware of the breakdown of our £5m revenue over the last few years - think you would be shocked that you left out about 20% from your figures.
.
Also where did you get your £3m+ admin expenses from? Why would these shoot up so much from the current level? Those expenses are pretty non league related - so should stick down around the new cut amount - back office staff don't get promotion payrises like players!
.
Bucko - I would take promotion this year and 20th next season!
.
As Oxon said its a start and you then build from there - see where the weaknesses are and strengthen them - that doesn't have to mean millions in wages - we strengthened a lot of areas this year yet cut our wage bill
.
Getting the blend is right and I think we are too young this term - but think that has been forced on us - so once Navarro et al go we can afford a few more "older heads" - but that shouldn't mean the bill going up if spent wisely
.
We will never know if it is possible to make a profit and survive until we actually get there - but this year and next should go a long way in showing if it is possible by seeing what happens to the bottom line !
JHB - think you are being far to simple in your calculations as have not taken into account any Sponsorship or Commercial revenue - which will go up if we go up. Are you aware of the breakdown of our £5m revenue over the last few years - think you would be shocked that you left out about 20% from your figures. . Also where did you get your £3m+ admin expenses from? Why would these shoot up so much from the current level? Those expenses are pretty non league related - so should stick down around the new cut amount - back office staff don't get promotion payrises like players! . Bucko - I would take promotion this year and 20th next season! . As Oxon said its a start and you then build from there - see where the weaknesses are and strengthen them - that doesn't have to mean millions in wages - we strengthened a lot of areas this year yet cut our wage bill . Getting the blend is right and I think we are too young this term - but think that has been forced on us - so once Navarro et al go we can afford a few more "older heads" - but that shouldn't mean the bill going up if spent wisely . We will never know if it is possible to make a profit and survive until we actually get there - but this year and next should go a long way in showing if it is possible by seeing what happens to the bottom line ! London Red

9:57pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Oxon-Red says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Oxon-Red wrote:
Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways
.
Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well
.
Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!!
.
The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one
.
Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets!
.
So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium?
.
So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed?
.
Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off
.
As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point
.
If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level"
.
Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot!
.
As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now?
.
Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill
.
What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again!
.
Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad!
.
Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount!
.
We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing!
.
So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill???
.
I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+!
.
I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!!
.
Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects!
Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental.

I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening.

At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC.
12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m.

But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in.

The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average.

Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible.

It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans.

If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well.

But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it.

Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover.

Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.
I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted.

Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower.

I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league.

IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that.

We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe.

COYMR
Oxon, I doubt there's a club in the land that wouldn't want to buy good players if it could afford them. By the same token, I'm sure every club would want to develop its own players, with all the savings and potential future income that brings. But who knows what the "correct" balance or approach is? If the correct balance was that easily identifiable, everyone would be doing it. A heavy reliance on one policy or the other could produce great success or complete failure. A mixture of the two is equally unpredictable. There's a lot of luck involved. Everyone talks about the benefits of bringing young players through the ranks but it only works if you are lucky/canny enough to spot those that are good enough and who (along with their parents) haven't already been tempted by the bigger clubs.

You'll probably not be surprised to learn that I reckon the best situation is for the club to have strong financial backing, pay the going rate for some good players, while having good development and scouting systems alongside. If you've got all that, I believe you're in with a good shout - but Lady Luck will still have her say in it. Of course we don't have all that, so it's not really a matter of preference for Power. He has little choice.

We've achieved nothing yet this season. Time will tell on that one. I'm not at all sure about the division being stronger than last term. Walsall and Orient are the only sides I've seen that looked particularly strong. I'll stick with my view that a mid-table finish, even in a mediocre division, would be an excellent achievement for Cooper unless we can make three good signings in January - and that's if we don't lose Foderingham or Belford proves a worthy successor.
You basically agree with me then Den.

You seem to approve of Lee and the way I see it he wishes to use a blend of youth and experience. Of course everyone wants to be able to do that and you have to cut your cloth accordingly. There is luck involved, Charlie Austin being a good example but they don't all have to be of his standard.

You want a financial backer, I don't because it hasn't worked. I don't want short term sucess and long term misery. I can now see why you and many others were so dead against Jed and Co, no money. Seems to me that Lee is going to continue on the Jed path and keep the costs down, how long before his lack of money causes unrest. I actually believe Jed may have been the route into a club for Lee, a fall guy.

Which would you prefer to watch, two Ryan Mason and Massa or Navarro ? Probably cost the same in wages.

I have never criticised Black because I appreciate what he and his original consortium did but after all the money spent on two-year contract journeymen are we any further forward ? The money we have made as a club has been through youngsters, Morrison (stupid clause), Cox, Ritchie and Austin. We currently have Wes, the two Thompsons, Ranger (trial pending) and Luongo with real potential sell on clauses.

Sorry but unless Sheikh "I'll give £100M and don't want it back" comes in I am happier with Lee's (and Jed before him) more frugal approach.

COYMR

ps

Where is J. Wray, aka Fired, Fredi ????
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Oxon-Red[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: Stadium thing is a conundrum as it can work both ways . Brighton are the most recent example of building the stadium first and then spending on the team and are doing very well . Then for everyone of those you have a Coventry or Darlington!! . The main thing which I think Power has noticed is we DONT need a new stadium as we NEVER fill our current one . Look at all our big L1 games against Leeds Saints Norwich Millwall Charlton Bristol both Sheffields and Wolves coming up - all effectively Championship games and we had crowds of 11-13k with spare tickets! . So why would we suddenly get 20k if it was in a new stadium? . So why spend £20m+ if it not really needed? . Yes long term if we were to become a yo-yo club then we will need to get a complex which delivers 365 revenue - but that is someway off . As Power said once we get up and stay up we can reassess at that point . If the club is in the Championship and making a profit - it will be an attractive option for someone to come in and take it to the "next level" . Whereas up to now why would anyone want to buy a L1 club which owed millions and was then losing over £1m a season - the answer is they didn't - thus Black and Co had to write off £10m and sell it for £1 to get shot! . As for we need to spend X millions on wages isn't that the whole point Power is trying to re-educate fans about now? . Fitton and Wray both thought the only way to get out of L1 was to match the big boys - thus our £4m wage bill . What did that get us? Pretty much bankruptcy twice! Wray revealed we were up sh1t creak post relegation and if AB had not agreed to slow funded it it was game over. Then when he divided actually I don't want to do that it was pretty much game over again! . Power has slashed our wage bill by £1m-£1.5m this season yet we have a much stronger and more balanced squad! . Plus we have watched the likes of Doncaster and Yeovil go up not spending that amount! . We will see it slashed again - not via getting shot of Wes and Co - but by finally removing the legacy big earners - who currently are only drawing a wage and doing nothing! . So if we can become more competitive with half the wages of before - why can't we go up and be competitive with a reasonable wage bill??? . I doubt Doncaster and Yeovil are currently spending £10m+! . I said I thought we would be profitable before with gates of 12k and a wage bill of about £9m - Wray thought that too and they would not have cut back on wages!!!! . Now we have cut other expenditure and will more than likely have a smaller wage bill that that (£6m?) - then surely we should easily make a profit like Power expects![/p][/quote]Cov and Darlo are both unique cases for new grounds not working out. Darlo's was ludicrously too large given their historic support - a new 10-12k one and they'd have been laughing. Cov is just a bizarre situation where the owners seem to be borderline mental. I doubt very much that gates of 12k would make you profitable, because otherwise the whole division would be doing it and making a profit, which I seriously doubt is happening. At a rough guess, and allowing for a small price increase in FLC. 12,000 @ £25k a time x 23 games = £6.9m + £4m TV money = £10.9m. But you won't get an average of £25k per person - kids for a quid, OAPs, season tickets would probably bring that down to closer to £15 (this is a guess). So that's total income of £4.1m+£4m = £8.1m plus sponsorship and anything else. For a club like Swindon, that's not going to be a lot, so let's say £9m income all in. The average FLC wage is over £4k so if we assume £200k per player per season because we'd have to be paying below average. Assuming we spend 60% of our income on players' wages, that's £5.4m tops, which might just about work. Out of that £3.6m we need to pay all the bills, non-playing wages and fund transfers (unless we can turn a profit on those, which basically means getting kids through the youth team). I'm not convinced it's feasible. It's easy to say that we don't get more than 8,000 gates so 14,000capacity is enough, but the issue isn't necessarily "if you build it they will come" (because you'd still need to be successful to attract support) but rather "if you build it they can come". Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if the team is successful or even just gets a good cup draw, you can attract casual fans who might then become more regular fans. If the Town in the FLC against an attractive team or in the cup vs a PL team and want to go, at present there's about 4,000 additional home seats to sell. Against a mid-ranking FLC team that's not a problem, but against a top PL one, you can bet more than 4,000 extra fans would want to go. The gates against Wigan in the FAC or Chelsea reserves in the FLC show that there is interest if the Town are doing well. But with a 14,000 ground we can't cash in on those matches, which is perhaps the best way of attracting new fans (if you're a kid and we're playing Chelsea or Man Utd you might pester your dad to take you and end up getting hooked, but you're unlikely to be asking him to take you to a match against Crawley or Stevenage). Milton Keynes were able to cash in on 7500 Cov fans the other week - we can't: they'd get the usual away allocation and that's it. Obviously there's no point in splashing the cash on a ground and ending up in FLC2 or the Conference, but the two go hand in hand. If you look at the attendances in the FLC there seems little point in even attempting to survive in it (and we'd have to get there first) if the ground is less than about 18k under cover. Years ago, we were pretty much on a par with the likes of Reading, Swansea, Brighton, etc. Now look at where we are - and what do those sort of clubs have that we don't? Modern stadiums not a run down one where even the newest stand is now 20 years old.[/p][/quote]I think you need to consider how the wage bill is spent should Town be promoted. Do you spend, bringing in "experienced players" that have "experience" (Bristol City) or allow younger players to develop with the correct balance of youth and experience. I believe Lee is looking to the later and if this works the wage bill would be lower. I think this season is a good example of what can be acheived. The results have been up and down but in reality we are in a very similar position to this time last season in what is largely considered a stronger league. IMO Lee would be happy to get up and stay up. If that means finishing 21st he would be happy as you can then build on that. We have to get there first though, can we do it this season ? I don't believe we can but having had a decent start we have more chance than City or the Blades so maybe just maybe. COYMR[/p][/quote]Oxon, I doubt there's a club in the land that wouldn't want to buy good players if it could afford them. By the same token, I'm sure every club would want to develop its own players, with all the savings and potential future income that brings. But who knows what the "correct" balance or approach is? If the correct balance was that easily identifiable, everyone would be doing it. A heavy reliance on one policy or the other could produce great success or complete failure. A mixture of the two is equally unpredictable. There's a lot of luck involved. Everyone talks about the benefits of bringing young players through the ranks but it only works if you are lucky/canny enough to spot those that are good enough and who (along with their parents) haven't already been tempted by the bigger clubs. You'll probably not be surprised to learn that I reckon the best situation is for the club to have strong financial backing, pay the going rate for some good players, while having good development and scouting systems alongside. If you've got all that, I believe you're in with a good shout - but Lady Luck will still have her say in it. Of course we don't have all that, so it's not really a matter of preference for Power. He has little choice. We've achieved nothing yet this season. Time will tell on that one. I'm not at all sure about the division being stronger than last term. Walsall and Orient are the only sides I've seen that looked particularly strong. I'll stick with my view that a mid-table finish, even in a mediocre division, would be an excellent achievement for Cooper unless we can make three good signings in January - and that's if we don't lose Foderingham or Belford proves a worthy successor.[/p][/quote]You basically agree with me then Den. You seem to approve of Lee and the way I see it he wishes to use a blend of youth and experience. Of course everyone wants to be able to do that and you have to cut your cloth accordingly. There is luck involved, Charlie Austin being a good example but they don't all have to be of his standard. You want a financial backer, I don't because it hasn't worked. I don't want short term sucess and long term misery. I can now see why you and many others were so dead against Jed and Co, no money. Seems to me that Lee is going to continue on the Jed path and keep the costs down, how long before his lack of money causes unrest. I actually believe Jed may have been the route into a club for Lee, a fall guy. Which would you prefer to watch, two Ryan Mason and Massa or Navarro ? Probably cost the same in wages. I have never criticised Black because I appreciate what he and his original consortium did but after all the money spent on two-year contract journeymen are we any further forward ? The money we have made as a club has been through youngsters, Morrison (stupid clause), Cox, Ritchie and Austin. We currently have Wes, the two Thompsons, Ranger (trial pending) and Luongo with real potential sell on clauses. Sorry but unless Sheikh "I'll give £100M and don't want it back" comes in I am happier with Lee's (and Jed before him) more frugal approach. COYMR ps Where is J. Wray, aka Fired, Fredi ???? Oxon-Red

11:38pm Sun 8 Dec 13

Steve. Brentford says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located. bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.
I feel the same about the owning of the ground Den, my love for Swindon Town Football club like most of us started at the CG, so the sentimental side of things play a big part with me regarding us moving away from it, also the worry that some outsiders coming in and buying the club so has to make money in selling the ground and moving us out of Town and leaving us to the vultures.
And like you when i see Colchester`s Ground it leaves me cold.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Unlucky Steve - but at least they're staying in the community. I dread the day that we move to some shiny new stadium out near the M4 that's accessible only by car or bus. Colchester's "Weston Homes Community Stadium" should be a lesson to us all - and that's not even far out of town. I used to think it was a disadvantage that the club doesn't own the County Ground. Now I'm not so sure. If the club could buy the ground, sell it and do what Southampton have done - build a better one in the town - that would be great. But anyone looking to make a quick profit out of the club probably wouldn't have too many qualms about where a new ground is located. bucko, I don't think the Council has ever really been unsupportive of STFC. Didn't they agree to write off (or at least defer for a long time) a large amount of rent arrears when they could easily have put the club into deep sh1t? I think the other point to consider is that STFC is unfortunately a minority interest within the Borough. The Council's primary duty is to its taxpayers. When there are only 7,000 people out of 200,000(?) watching their local League team, it's not realistic to expect the Council to bend over backwards to help the club.[/p][/quote]I feel the same about the owning of the ground Den, my love for Swindon Town Football club like most of us started at the CG, so the sentimental side of things play a big part with me regarding us moving away from it, also the worry that some outsiders coming in and buying the club so has to make money in selling the ground and moving us out of Town and leaving us to the vultures. And like you when i see Colchester`s Ground it leaves me cold. Steve. Brentford

9:37am Mon 9 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

Oxon, I'll follow up on a few points and then leave it there.

I've said all along that it was the way Black's money was wasted that cooked our goose. I was one of those calling for more frugality, not less when PDC was continually demanding more cash to get himself out of the holes he had dug with his useless signings, extravagant contracts etc. You can blame any combination of Black, Wray and Di Canio for that but the conclusion is the same. It was an almighty c0ck-up. Incidentally, I think you might find many of those who now say we are better off without money are the very same people who insisted that PDC should always have what he wanted. Their encouragement would no doubt have given him yet more belief that he was untouchable and above the normal constraints of management.

You seem to take the view that we were doomed to failure because the club had money behind it. I say that money gave us the best opportunity we have ever seen - and are ever likely to see - to get ourselves out of the doldrums and established in the higher divisions.

You are completely wrong in your suggestion that I was against McCrory because he had no money. My support for the club's board/owners has never been determined by the amount of money they had. I was against McCrory for the simple reason that he was economical with the truth right from the start and didn't ever take the opportunity to explain the untruths he told.

Power has come in with probably little money but no lies. That will do me for starters.

By the way, I'm not concerned about fredi's identity but I hope he still has inside knowledge and continues to post on here. We might get to hear about happier circumstances and an honest approach to the football club and its fans. He was our only lifeline to what was really going on under Transparent Jed.
Oxon, I'll follow up on a few points and then leave it there. I've said all along that it was the way Black's money was wasted that cooked our goose. I was one of those calling for more frugality, not less when PDC was continually demanding more cash to get himself out of the holes he had dug with his useless signings, extravagant contracts etc. You can blame any combination of Black, Wray and Di Canio for that but the conclusion is the same. It was an almighty c0ck-up. Incidentally, I think you might find many of those who now say we are better off without money are the very same people who insisted that PDC should always have what he wanted. Their encouragement would no doubt have given him yet more belief that he was untouchable and above the normal constraints of management. You seem to take the view that we were doomed to failure because the club had money behind it. I say that money gave us the best opportunity we have ever seen - and are ever likely to see - to get ourselves out of the doldrums and established in the higher divisions. You are completely wrong in your suggestion that I was against McCrory because he had no money. My support for the club's board/owners has never been determined by the amount of money they had. I was against McCrory for the simple reason that he was economical with the truth right from the start and didn't ever take the opportunity to explain the untruths he told. Power has come in with probably little money but no lies. That will do me for starters. By the way, I'm not concerned about fredi's identity but I hope he still has inside knowledge and continues to post on here. We might get to hear about happier circumstances and an honest approach to the football club and its fans. He was our only lifeline to what was really going on under Transparent Jed. Oi Den!

11:58am Mon 9 Dec 13

buckobassettboy says...

joey butler wrote:
Sorry Old Chap, I think you mean Liverpool is in the North West, where it always has been?
Oops-And i got Geography 'o' level too-but hope you got the drift of what I was saying and top marks for observation.Hoopfell
y whont mak the same mishtak again.
[quote][p][bold]joey butler[/bold] wrote: Sorry Old Chap, I think you mean Liverpool is in the North West, where it always has been?[/p][/quote]Oops-And i got Geography 'o' level too-but hope you got the drift of what I was saying and top marks for observation.Hoopfell y whont mak the same mishtak again. buckobassettboy

1:11pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Swindon1984 says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Oxon, I'll follow up on a few points and then leave it there. I've said all along that it was the way Black's money was wasted that cooked our goose. I was one of those calling for more frugality, not less when PDC was continually demanding more cash to get himself out of the holes he had dug with his useless signings, extravagant contracts etc. You can blame any combination of Black, Wray and Di Canio for that but the conclusion is the same. It was an almighty c0ck-up. Incidentally, I think you might find many of those who now say we are better off without money are the very same people who insisted that PDC should always have what he wanted. Their encouragement would no doubt have given him yet more belief that he was untouchable and above the normal constraints of management. You seem to take the view that we were doomed to failure because the club had money behind it. I say that money gave us the best opportunity we have ever seen - and are ever likely to see - to get ourselves out of the doldrums and established in the higher divisions. You are completely wrong in your suggestion that I was against McCrory because he had no money. My support for the club's board/owners has never been determined by the amount of money they had. I was against McCrory for the simple reason that he was economical with the truth right from the start and didn't ever take the opportunity to explain the untruths he told. Power has come in with probably little money but no lies. That will do me for starters. By the way, I'm not concerned about fredi's identity but I hope he still has inside knowledge and continues to post on here. We might get to hear about happier circumstances and an honest approach to the football club and its fans. He was our only lifeline to what was really going on under Transparent Jed.
Have to take issue with the last bit, how can we know whether someone is really in the know if we don't know who they are, and still less know their motivations or agenda? My attitude to that particular individual as you well know was either put up or shut up. In the end, he/she did neither.

If I had literally nothing better to do with my time I'd be tempted to start a new profile, pretend to be in the know and see exactly how many people believed whatever rubbish I chose to spout. I bet it would be a few, but what I said wouldn't be any more accurate for that.

There's only one reason someone would make the kind of allegations Fredi did anonymously, and that's to avoid any accountability for the allegations being made. This makes me suspicious as to reliability and motive. My position has not and will not change based on that one key point.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Oxon, I'll follow up on a few points and then leave it there. I've said all along that it was the way Black's money was wasted that cooked our goose. I was one of those calling for more frugality, not less when PDC was continually demanding more cash to get himself out of the holes he had dug with his useless signings, extravagant contracts etc. You can blame any combination of Black, Wray and Di Canio for that but the conclusion is the same. It was an almighty c0ck-up. Incidentally, I think you might find many of those who now say we are better off without money are the very same people who insisted that PDC should always have what he wanted. Their encouragement would no doubt have given him yet more belief that he was untouchable and above the normal constraints of management. You seem to take the view that we were doomed to failure because the club had money behind it. I say that money gave us the best opportunity we have ever seen - and are ever likely to see - to get ourselves out of the doldrums and established in the higher divisions. You are completely wrong in your suggestion that I was against McCrory because he had no money. My support for the club's board/owners has never been determined by the amount of money they had. I was against McCrory for the simple reason that he was economical with the truth right from the start and didn't ever take the opportunity to explain the untruths he told. Power has come in with probably little money but no lies. That will do me for starters. By the way, I'm not concerned about fredi's identity but I hope he still has inside knowledge and continues to post on here. We might get to hear about happier circumstances and an honest approach to the football club and its fans. He was our only lifeline to what was really going on under Transparent Jed.[/p][/quote]Have to take issue with the last bit, how can we know whether someone is really in the know if we don't know who they are, and still less know their motivations or agenda? My attitude to that particular individual as you well know was either put up or shut up. In the end, he/she did neither. If I had literally nothing better to do with my time I'd be tempted to start a new profile, pretend to be in the know and see exactly how many people believed whatever rubbish I chose to spout. I bet it would be a few, but what I said wouldn't be any more accurate for that. There's only one reason someone would make the kind of allegations Fredi did anonymously, and that's to avoid any accountability for the allegations being made. This makes me suspicious as to reliability and motive. My position has not and will not change based on that one key point. Swindon1984

2:59pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

'84, I believe fredi has been proved right on enough matters to make it beyond reasonable doubt that had very good information. My initial thought was that he was either brilliant at making invention sound entirely plausible or he knew what was going on. Enough has emerged to prove (to me anyway) that he knew what was going on. The names of Power and Crouch, the "consultancy fees", the fact that two of McCrory's initial consortium would be leaving, that Power had effectively acquired control of the club - all this was initially put into the public domain by fredi. You might say he shouldn't have done that but I don't see how you can argue that he didn't know the facts.
'84, I believe fredi has been proved right on enough matters to make it beyond reasonable doubt that had very good information. My initial thought was that he was either brilliant at making invention sound entirely plausible or he knew what was going on. Enough has emerged to prove (to me anyway) that he knew what was going on. The names of Power and Crouch, the "consultancy fees", the fact that two of McCrory's initial consortium would be leaving, that Power had effectively acquired control of the club - all this was initially put into the public domain by fredi. You might say he shouldn't have done that but I don't see how you can argue that he didn't know the facts. Oi Den!

3:09pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Oxon-Red says...

Oi Den! wrote:
Oxon, I'll follow up on a few points and then leave it there. I've said all along that it was the way Black's money was wasted that cooked our goose. I was one of those calling for more frugality, not less when PDC was continually demanding more cash to get himself out of the holes he had dug with his useless signings, extravagant contracts etc. You can blame any combination of Black, Wray and Di Canio for that but the conclusion is the same. It was an almighty c0ck-up. Incidentally, I think you might find many of those who now say we are better off without money are the very same people who insisted that PDC should always have what he wanted. Their encouragement would no doubt have given him yet more belief that he was untouchable and above the normal constraints of management. You seem to take the view that we were doomed to failure because the club had money behind it. I say that money gave us the best opportunity we have ever seen - and are ever likely to see - to get ourselves out of the doldrums and established in the higher divisions. You are completely wrong in your suggestion that I was against McCrory because he had no money. My support for the club's board/owners has never been determined by the amount of money they had. I was against McCrory for the simple reason that he was economical with the truth right from the start and didn't ever take the opportunity to explain the untruths he told. Power has come in with probably little money but no lies. That will do me for starters. By the way, I'm not concerned about fredi's identity but I hope he still has inside knowledge and continues to post on here. We might get to hear about happier circumstances and an honest approach to the football club and its fans. He was our only lifeline to what was really going on under Transparent Jed.
Den,

I agree with you regarding the waste. We took a step forward initially followed by two steps back before ending up in roughly the same position. During that time the only people that benefitted were a few players and their agents.

No way do I feel we would be doomed if we had a backer I would just feel safer if the club didn't need to rely on one. The events of January identified to me just how fragile a club can be if it is reliant on one person to pay the bills.

I will support Lee because I want the club to prosper but he has said very little about Jed. I would not be surprised if he was the initial way in for Lee as he appeared on the scene fairly soon after the ratification of the take-over. In this case Jed was Lee's mouthpiece.

Just a thought.

COYMR
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: Oxon, I'll follow up on a few points and then leave it there. I've said all along that it was the way Black's money was wasted that cooked our goose. I was one of those calling for more frugality, not less when PDC was continually demanding more cash to get himself out of the holes he had dug with his useless signings, extravagant contracts etc. You can blame any combination of Black, Wray and Di Canio for that but the conclusion is the same. It was an almighty c0ck-up. Incidentally, I think you might find many of those who now say we are better off without money are the very same people who insisted that PDC should always have what he wanted. Their encouragement would no doubt have given him yet more belief that he was untouchable and above the normal constraints of management. You seem to take the view that we were doomed to failure because the club had money behind it. I say that money gave us the best opportunity we have ever seen - and are ever likely to see - to get ourselves out of the doldrums and established in the higher divisions. You are completely wrong in your suggestion that I was against McCrory because he had no money. My support for the club's board/owners has never been determined by the amount of money they had. I was against McCrory for the simple reason that he was economical with the truth right from the start and didn't ever take the opportunity to explain the untruths he told. Power has come in with probably little money but no lies. That will do me for starters. By the way, I'm not concerned about fredi's identity but I hope he still has inside knowledge and continues to post on here. We might get to hear about happier circumstances and an honest approach to the football club and its fans. He was our only lifeline to what was really going on under Transparent Jed.[/p][/quote]Den, I agree with you regarding the waste. We took a step forward initially followed by two steps back before ending up in roughly the same position. During that time the only people that benefitted were a few players and their agents. No way do I feel we would be doomed if we had a backer I would just feel safer if the club didn't need to rely on one. The events of January identified to me just how fragile a club can be if it is reliant on one person to pay the bills. I will support Lee because I want the club to prosper but he has said very little about Jed. I would not be surprised if he was the initial way in for Lee as he appeared on the scene fairly soon after the ratification of the take-over. In this case Jed was Lee's mouthpiece. Just a thought. COYMR Oxon-Red

5:21pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Oi Den! says...

Oxon, I wouldn't rule that out but I think another possibility is that Power only got involved when McCrory found that he actually needed to lay his hands on substantial cash to enable the takeover to go through.

Incidentally, I notice that Crouch has been a director of Swinton Reds 20 Limited for several months, so it seems he may already have a say in the running of STFC, whether he's on the board or not.
Oxon, I wouldn't rule that out but I think another possibility is that Power only got involved when McCrory found that he actually needed to lay his hands on substantial cash to enable the takeover to go through. Incidentally, I notice that Crouch has been a director of Swinton Reds 20 Limited for several months, so it seems he may already have a say in the running of STFC, whether he's on the board or not. Oi Den!

6:26pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Jeremy Hilary Boob says...

London Red wrote:
JHB - think you are being far to simple in your calculations as have not taken into account any Sponsorship or Commercial revenue - which will go up if we go up. Are you aware of the breakdown of our £5m revenue over the last few years - think you would be shocked that you left out about 20% from your figures.
.
Also where did you get your £3m+ admin expenses from? Why would these shoot up so much from the current level? Those expenses are pretty non league related - so should stick down around the new cut amount - back office staff don't get promotion payrises like players!
.
Bucko - I would take promotion this year and 20th next season!
.
As Oxon said its a start and you then build from there - see where the weaknesses are and strengthen them - that doesn't have to mean millions in wages - we strengthened a lot of areas this year yet cut our wage bill
.
Getting the blend is right and I think we are too young this term - but think that has been forced on us - so once Navarro et al go we can afford a few more "older heads" - but that shouldn't mean the bill going up if spent wisely
.
We will never know if it is possible to make a profit and survive until we actually get there - but this year and next should go a long way in showing if it is possible by seeing what happens to the bottom line !
I don't profess to have any more idea of what the income/expenditure would be in the FLC than anyonelse here. I'm just trying to throw some ideas into the discussion to point out that it's not just a case of being profitable because of the extra £4m TV money. If it was that simple, every FLC team would be making money, which I seriously doubt is happening.

On the playing side, you've got promotion increases to pay to the existing players and associated staff. Then you've got to strengthen the team by bringing in players who will want FLC wages, signing on fees, etc. At the moment we can pay average FL1 wages (although PDC/Wray seemed to be way over the odds) because we get average FL1 gates. In FLC we'd be competing with teams with far bigger budgets, yet you have to try to compete otherwise you're definitely going down

Of course, the non-playing staff won't get pay rises because the team's been promoted, but you might need to take a few more junior ones on (busier shop, more ticket sales, etc), and again, any ones senior coming (existing ones moving on, not being up to the job, etc) in will see a turnover of £9m instead of £3m and base their salary demands on that.

Do any of us know what sort of changes you need if you get promoted to the FLC? The PL seems to have rules for things like media facilities, those posh seats instead of dugouts, better floodlights, but do you have to shell out for any of those sorts of things in FLC as well? FLC floodlights seem better on TV than ours do (could be ex-PL grounds though).

As for sponsorship/commerci
al stuff, obviously there will be an uplift, but how much? We could easily be locked into existing deals that have little or no automatic increases for promotion, so unless we're in the FLC when the deals are up, we'll see little if any increase on some of them. As a possible example, I've got a suspicion that part of the reason that Southampton had that sponsor-free 125th anniversary kit was so that they didn't have to agree a deal as an FL1 club. The increase in shirt sales would have made up some of the shortfall and when they were back in the FLC they'd make a deal as an FLC team not an FL1 one. Didn't we hand over the catering, so there's no money there? And while more fans = more potential shirt sales, we'd still be a Mickey Mouse FLC team compared to many.

I do think we'd be better off having a better ground before we get promoted because I think it gives us more chance of staying up, but at the very least we should have some plans in place (either for the close season after promotion or at the very least the close season after if we've stayed up) - e.g. by knocking down the Town End and replacing it with a 5000 capacity stand. At the very least, it then gives you a better opportunity of becoming an FLC/FL1 yo-yo team and then kicking on to becoming more established, rather than the current CG which pretty much limits us to hanging onto 21st every season. As we saw under McMahon, that's probably not a recipe for attractive football to attract new fans (not to mention, a team losing most of the time is not much of a draw except to existing fans).

In an ideal world, we should either move or at least find the cricket club a new ground (shame Headlands School has been sold for houses) so we could either turn the pitch round or build a new ground on the cricket pitch - the existing stadium's footprint seems very limited, especially on the Bank.
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: JHB - think you are being far to simple in your calculations as have not taken into account any Sponsorship or Commercial revenue - which will go up if we go up. Are you aware of the breakdown of our £5m revenue over the last few years - think you would be shocked that you left out about 20% from your figures. . Also where did you get your £3m+ admin expenses from? Why would these shoot up so much from the current level? Those expenses are pretty non league related - so should stick down around the new cut amount - back office staff don't get promotion payrises like players! . Bucko - I would take promotion this year and 20th next season! . As Oxon said its a start and you then build from there - see where the weaknesses are and strengthen them - that doesn't have to mean millions in wages - we strengthened a lot of areas this year yet cut our wage bill . Getting the blend is right and I think we are too young this term - but think that has been forced on us - so once Navarro et al go we can afford a few more "older heads" - but that shouldn't mean the bill going up if spent wisely . We will never know if it is possible to make a profit and survive until we actually get there - but this year and next should go a long way in showing if it is possible by seeing what happens to the bottom line ![/p][/quote]I don't profess to have any more idea of what the income/expenditure would be in the FLC than anyonelse here. I'm just trying to throw some ideas into the discussion to point out that it's not just a case of being profitable because of the extra £4m TV money. If it was that simple, every FLC team would be making money, which I seriously doubt is happening. On the playing side, you've got promotion increases to pay to the existing players and associated staff. Then you've got to strengthen the team by bringing in players who will want FLC wages, signing on fees, etc. At the moment we can pay average FL1 wages (although PDC/Wray seemed to be way over the odds) because we get average FL1 gates. In FLC we'd be competing with teams with far bigger budgets, yet you have to try to compete otherwise you're definitely going down Of course, the non-playing staff won't get pay rises because the team's been promoted, but you might need to take a few more junior ones on (busier shop, more ticket sales, etc), and again, any ones senior coming (existing ones moving on, not being up to the job, etc) in will see a turnover of £9m instead of £3m and base their salary demands on that. Do any of us know what sort of changes you need if you get promoted to the FLC? The PL seems to have rules for things like media facilities, those posh seats instead of dugouts, better floodlights, but do you have to shell out for any of those sorts of things in FLC as well? FLC floodlights seem better on TV than ours do (could be ex-PL grounds though). As for sponsorship/commerci al stuff, obviously there will be an uplift, but how much? We could easily be locked into existing deals that have little or no automatic increases for promotion, so unless we're in the FLC when the deals are up, we'll see little if any increase on some of them. As a possible example, I've got a suspicion that part of the reason that Southampton had that sponsor-free 125th anniversary kit was so that they didn't have to agree a deal as an FL1 club. The increase in shirt sales would have made up some of the shortfall and when they were back in the FLC they'd make a deal as an FLC team not an FL1 one. Didn't we hand over the catering, so there's no money there? And while more fans = more potential shirt sales, we'd still be a Mickey Mouse FLC team compared to many. I do think we'd be better off having a better ground before we get promoted because I think it gives us more chance of staying up, but at the very least we should have some plans in place (either for the close season after promotion or at the very least the close season after if we've stayed up) - e.g. by knocking down the Town End and replacing it with a 5000 capacity stand. At the very least, it then gives you a better opportunity of becoming an FLC/FL1 yo-yo team and then kicking on to becoming more established, rather than the current CG which pretty much limits us to hanging onto 21st every season. As we saw under McMahon, that's probably not a recipe for attractive football to attract new fans (not to mention, a team losing most of the time is not much of a draw except to existing fans). In an ideal world, we should either move or at least find the cricket club a new ground (shame Headlands School has been sold for houses) so we could either turn the pitch round or build a new ground on the cricket pitch - the existing stadium's footprint seems very limited, especially on the Bank. Jeremy Hilary Boob

6:34pm Mon 9 Dec 13

dazzastfc says...

Jeremy Hilary Boob wrote:
London Red wrote:
JHB - think you are being far to simple in your calculations as have not taken into account any Sponsorship or Commercial revenue - which will go up if we go up. Are you aware of the breakdown of our £5m revenue over the last few years - think you would be shocked that you left out about 20% from your figures.
.
Also where did you get your £3m+ admin expenses from? Why would these shoot up so much from the current level? Those expenses are pretty non league related - so should stick down around the new cut amount - back office staff don't get promotion payrises like players!
.
Bucko - I would take promotion this year and 20th next season!
.
As Oxon said its a start and you then build from there - see where the weaknesses are and strengthen them - that doesn't have to mean millions in wages - we strengthened a lot of areas this year yet cut our wage bill
.
Getting the blend is right and I think we are too young this term - but think that has been forced on us - so once Navarro et al go we can afford a few more "older heads" - but that shouldn't mean the bill going up if spent wisely
.
We will never know if it is possible to make a profit and survive until we actually get there - but this year and next should go a long way in showing if it is possible by seeing what happens to the bottom line !
I don't profess to have any more idea of what the income/expenditure would be in the FLC than anyonelse here. I'm just trying to throw some ideas into the discussion to point out that it's not just a case of being profitable because of the extra £4m TV money. If it was that simple, every FLC team would be making money, which I seriously doubt is happening.

On the playing side, you've got promotion increases to pay to the existing players and associated staff. Then you've got to strengthen the team by bringing in players who will want FLC wages, signing on fees, etc. At the moment we can pay average FL1 wages (although PDC/Wray seemed to be way over the odds) because we get average FL1 gates. In FLC we'd be competing with teams with far bigger budgets, yet you have to try to compete otherwise you're definitely going down

Of course, the non-playing staff won't get pay rises because the team's been promoted, but you might need to take a few more junior ones on (busier shop, more ticket sales, etc), and again, any ones senior coming (existing ones moving on, not being up to the job, etc) in will see a turnover of £9m instead of £3m and base their salary demands on that.

Do any of us know what sort of changes you need if you get promoted to the FLC? The PL seems to have rules for things like media facilities, those posh seats instead of dugouts, better floodlights, but do you have to shell out for any of those sorts of things in FLC as well? FLC floodlights seem better on TV than ours do (could be ex-PL grounds though).

As for sponsorship/commerci

al stuff, obviously there will be an uplift, but how much? We could easily be locked into existing deals that have little or no automatic increases for promotion, so unless we're in the FLC when the deals are up, we'll see little if any increase on some of them. As a possible example, I've got a suspicion that part of the reason that Southampton had that sponsor-free 125th anniversary kit was so that they didn't have to agree a deal as an FL1 club. The increase in shirt sales would have made up some of the shortfall and when they were back in the FLC they'd make a deal as an FLC team not an FL1 one. Didn't we hand over the catering, so there's no money there? And while more fans = more potential shirt sales, we'd still be a Mickey Mouse FLC team compared to many.

I do think we'd be better off having a better ground before we get promoted because I think it gives us more chance of staying up, but at the very least we should have some plans in place (either for the close season after promotion or at the very least the close season after if we've stayed up) - e.g. by knocking down the Town End and replacing it with a 5000 capacity stand. At the very least, it then gives you a better opportunity of becoming an FLC/FL1 yo-yo team and then kicking on to becoming more established, rather than the current CG which pretty much limits us to hanging onto 21st every season. As we saw under McMahon, that's probably not a recipe for attractive football to attract new fans (not to mention, a team losing most of the time is not much of a draw except to existing fans).

In an ideal world, we should either move or at least find the cricket club a new ground (shame Headlands School has been sold for houses) so we could either turn the pitch round or build a new ground on the cricket pitch - the existing stadium's footprint seems very limited, especially on the Bank.
CAN WE PLEASE TALK ABOUT THIS IF WE EVER GO UP....
[quote][p][bold]Jeremy Hilary Boob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: JHB - think you are being far to simple in your calculations as have not taken into account any Sponsorship or Commercial revenue - which will go up if we go up. Are you aware of the breakdown of our £5m revenue over the last few years - think you would be shocked that you left out about 20% from your figures. . Also where did you get your £3m+ admin expenses from? Why would these shoot up so much from the current level? Those expenses are pretty non league related - so should stick down around the new cut amount - back office staff don't get promotion payrises like players! . Bucko - I would take promotion this year and 20th next season! . As Oxon said its a start and you then build from there - see where the weaknesses are and strengthen them - that doesn't have to mean millions in wages - we strengthened a lot of areas this year yet cut our wage bill . Getting the blend is right and I think we are too young this term - but think that has been forced on us - so once Navarro et al go we can afford a few more "older heads" - but that shouldn't mean the bill going up if spent wisely . We will never know if it is possible to make a profit and survive until we actually get there - but this year and next should go a long way in showing if it is possible by seeing what happens to the bottom line ![/p][/quote]I don't profess to have any more idea of what the income/expenditure would be in the FLC than anyonelse here. I'm just trying to throw some ideas into the discussion to point out that it's not just a case of being profitable because of the extra £4m TV money. If it was that simple, every FLC team would be making money, which I seriously doubt is happening. On the playing side, you've got promotion increases to pay to the existing players and associated staff. Then you've got to strengthen the team by bringing in players who will want FLC wages, signing on fees, etc. At the moment we can pay average FL1 wages (although PDC/Wray seemed to be way over the odds) because we get average FL1 gates. In FLC we'd be competing with teams with far bigger budgets, yet you have to try to compete otherwise you're definitely going down Of course, the non-playing staff won't get pay rises because the team's been promoted, but you might need to take a few more junior ones on (busier shop, more ticket sales, etc), and again, any ones senior coming (existing ones moving on, not being up to the job, etc) in will see a turnover of £9m instead of £3m and base their salary demands on that. Do any of us know what sort of changes you need if you get promoted to the FLC? The PL seems to have rules for things like media facilities, those posh seats instead of dugouts, better floodlights, but do you have to shell out for any of those sorts of things in FLC as well? FLC floodlights seem better on TV than ours do (could be ex-PL grounds though). As for sponsorship/commerci al stuff, obviously there will be an uplift, but how much? We could easily be locked into existing deals that have little or no automatic increases for promotion, so unless we're in the FLC when the deals are up, we'll see little if any increase on some of them. As a possible example, I've got a suspicion that part of the reason that Southampton had that sponsor-free 125th anniversary kit was so that they didn't have to agree a deal as an FL1 club. The increase in shirt sales would have made up some of the shortfall and when they were back in the FLC they'd make a deal as an FLC team not an FL1 one. Didn't we hand over the catering, so there's no money there? And while more fans = more potential shirt sales, we'd still be a Mickey Mouse FLC team compared to many. I do think we'd be better off having a better ground before we get promoted because I think it gives us more chance of staying up, but at the very least we should have some plans in place (either for the close season after promotion or at the very least the close season after if we've stayed up) - e.g. by knocking down the Town End and replacing it with a 5000 capacity stand. At the very least, it then gives you a better opportunity of becoming an FLC/FL1 yo-yo team and then kicking on to becoming more established, rather than the current CG which pretty much limits us to hanging onto 21st every season. As we saw under McMahon, that's probably not a recipe for attractive football to attract new fans (not to mention, a team losing most of the time is not much of a draw except to existing fans). In an ideal world, we should either move or at least find the cricket club a new ground (shame Headlands School has been sold for houses) so we could either turn the pitch round or build a new ground on the cricket pitch - the existing stadium's footprint seems very limited, especially on the Bank.[/p][/quote]CAN WE PLEASE TALK ABOUT THIS IF WE EVER GO UP.... dazzastfc

7:34pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Upminster robins says...

I think the most important thing is that Town get promoted and that means
keeping Wes Fodderingham and another major assets, also Lee Power says
we are ok to the end of the season but what happens after that?

Graham Watson
I think the most important thing is that Town get promoted and that means keeping Wes Fodderingham and another major assets, also Lee Power says we are ok to the end of the season but what happens after that? Graham Watson Upminster robins

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