Hype will not help Miles says PDC (From The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald)

Not the most diplomatic of language, but this is surely right. Storey seems to be a well-grounded young man, but his development has to be handled carefully. That said, the talent is there, and one can only hope he continues to develop at the pace (forgive the pun) that he has done over the last twelve months.

He never misses an opportunity to have pop at Paul Bodin.

HardCorePrawn wrote:
He never misses an opportunity to have pop at Paul Bodin.

PDC's right. Billy was offered a contract to stay at Town but he refused as he wasn't guaranteed first team football. Now, at Torquay, his goal scoring abilities seem to have deserted him at present. Hope he can rediscover his form, but he should have stayed at Town to continue his development under PDC.

So we can't have a public opinion on players but Paolo can, I am always confused by Paolo's mixed messages but again like other agree that Miles has...well Miles to go yet before becoming a top class player.

Read it again Roger - he says fans can hope, dream and say what they want as they pay their money and can idolise players
.
It is others within the game (and the club) who should not come out and say he will do this and he will do that
.
His point was that 5 were hyped up within the club last year and now none play professionally - so lets not over hype players as they need to realise hard work is needed to maintain it
.
Maybe that hype went to their head and led to their downfall?
.
He clearly recognises Storey is humble and grounded and appreciates this - but is keen for him to stay like that - we don't want his head turned

who does pdc think he is?? Very arrogant interview, has he forgotten callum kennedy both the Thompsons, Will Evans, Miles Storey, Aaron Oakley, Billy Bodin plus a hoast of young lads that have gone to Liverpool,Chelsea and other clubs bringing in finances to the club... PDC keep your mouth shut and do your job, maybe you should look at yourself as the reason for Miles losing confidence not slag off Paul Bodin in public, the man is a loyal servent to this club and deserves better he will no doubt be around a long time after you have gone, its not all about you you you, 5 million budget!!! i dont think you have done particularly well, by the way you have probably just lowered Miles value as a player as well, im sure the chairman is delighted with that. Oh and by the way maybe you should tell Stuart Pearce that his selection of Miles for England is wrong, stop digging at Bodin senior and do YOUR job

“I don’t want to put him down but when the people say words and have the power to say words and the words go public, they have to be careful,” said the Town manager.


Pot , Kettle me thinks COYR

I've always believed if you give someone a lot of praise , it makes them feel better, and also perform better.
I know about great expectations, and all the rest, but look at Charlie boy up at Burnley. Lots of admiration from the supporters and praise from the right quarters , look how he's doing.
You want your kids to do well don't knock them down praise them up

I still think Paul Bodin would make a far better manager than you Mr PDC

Storey and Bodin looked better than anyone we had seen up front all season when Paul Bodin played them together in the last 2 games of the relegation season. Storey looked as promising then as he does now, I can't say I've noticed a massive difference in his game due to Paolo - I think Zippy takes the credit. We have been producing good youth players since Paul Bodin has been in charge and it's time Paolo realised and acknowledged that. If all those promising young players have now disappeared then maybe Paolo should be asking himself why he failed to develop them. If they had been identified as so promising then I'm sorry, Zippy is no fool, they must have been. Paolo often talks like his judgement is infallible and yet it is perfectly obvious from some his signings that this is far from the case. Also his best team selections i.e. Ferry, Bostock, the Thompson's, have only happened because they have been forced on him by injury - otherwise we would still be stuck with Miller, Navarro et al. He is blinkered and blinded by "championship experience". Experience counts for little against talent.

I rate Paolo but his egotistical and unthinking comments get right up my nose, he really is on some kind of a spectrum. Maybe SWP should arrange some counselling or psychological support to help with his personal development and emotional wellbeing. Paolo is always on about everyone else needing to improve and what is sauce for the goose ......

How arrogant! You only have to read the lads interviews to see he is grounded. If he has lost confidence then no wonder with articles like this. Would it really kill you PDC to give the kid a bit of praise and encouragement, you managed it with L Thompson. He did well, recognise it instead of trying to grab the headlines yourself! Good luck to him in tonights game.

Swindon Town FC currently has a big-headed manager who says what he thinks. He's also currently doing quite well. We're moving forward and it's quite exciting.

I remember Nottingham Forest once having a big-headed manager who said what he thought. He also did quite well. I don't think the supporters moaned too much when the European Cup was twice paraded around Nottingham city centre.

To those whom Di Canio offends: I hope you're at least enjoying the results at the moment. When he moves on I'm sure you'll all be much happier going back to bumping along at the bottom of League One forever.

Well hear we go yet again,when we all look back at young players who came up through development we have had decent success.
Can appreciate Pdc wanting to kep the lads feet on the ground yet in my books any player who can score 3 goals in 2 games is worth giving a try.
No Pdc has done the opposite in my mind he has unsettled the lad. Just maybe an approach saying so far so good etc it is a long way still to go, who know's pdc may have done this some how I don't think he has.
Still who am I just a mear humble supporter who will no doubt be slagged off for daring to have an opinion on what Pdc has said in this interview.
Again something might get missed in the translation???so we have a young player picked for England under 19 who does not fit the bill for Pdc????
Alas we are all supporters who do love our club my feelings are Miles will go on to bigger and better things in the future all I hope is it's with us

As London say's " read the article " he was presented with 5 lad's who were supposed to be the cream of the crop , and non of them have made it . Its not arrogance on di canio's part its how he see's it . In Paolo we trust !

Can't see any reason why a talented player should not be playing regular games. Paolo has said that some players are not "match fit" ie Bostock,Williams.
Forgive me if I am wrong but with the absense of a reserve team how on earth will they achieve this if they are not given first team action.
Lots of youngsters have been regulars at an early age Wayne Rooney and Trevor Francis as examples.
Some talented youngsters from here have tried to climb the ladder too soon in their development which I think has been their downfall (Jukebox & Tozer).
From what I have seen so far League 1 is not a step too far for Storey.

Strange article which gives out mixed messages? I understand in some ways Paolo trying to keep Miles grounded (not that I think he needs it, comes across very level headed) but at the same time for some reason dismissive of the youth department?

I'm an avid Town fan and one who likes to see young local players progress and having done my research via websites & social media sites the Youth seem to have developed players with some success in the last few years.

5 Academy graduates in the current first team squad (2 of which Welsh under 19 internationals and one an England under 19 international, 3 young players "sold" to premiership clubs, one player now playing in the Premiership, one at a championship club, one at an SPL club, one playing League one, one playing League two. Thats not bad at all I feel.

Paolo has made some good signings himself but at the same time he has also signed Comazzi, Lanzano, Atiku, Magera, Kerouche, Esjas, Cox. These were poor signings and in some respects I would rather have seen some of the younger players at Town given chances ahead of them, they couldn't of been worse and would have grown from the experience. As someone has already stated, praise goes a long way, far more than criticism.

So this statement says it all really, I am the manager, I am the centre of attention, maybe I do know what I'm doing, but you go down on your knee's and worship me and not the players. I am the one, blimmey, is name isn't Jose Mourinho is it.

Not really though eh ? Just a poor interpretation of a point badly put across.
I do think these journo's should help the guy out a bit with what he is trying to say, or yet once more the meaning and understanding of what is really being said, is lost. Not arrogant, just a badly understood and portrayed statement.

In Miles Storey's interviews he very eloquently stated how he is learning so much of the manager. Anyone considered that Paolo is giving him loads of praise in private but just trying to dampen expectation within the club to keep him grounded?

Anyone seen Bolton are £136.5 million in debt of which £125 million is a long term debt to the owner. Makes you stop and think on our massive budget of £4.5 million, the same as two years ago.

Let's get behind the manager and the team. He studies psychology of the game and players massively, cajooling and praising when needed and bringing back down to earth and being critical when needed.

Just feel there is for some reason a bit of a witch hunt going on and can't for the life of me work out why.

I loved zippy as a player, I am delighted he is looking after our youth team, I think he is doing a brilliant job. I think most on here would agree with me? I also think the manager is doing a brilliant job. Shame that opinion isn't shared by quite so many....

I listened to the interview and I thought PDC spoke very well on this matter. He wasn't having a go at either of the Bodins or Storey. He was simply saying nobody knows how good the player is yet and he needs time to develop. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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We all have this romantic idea that kids will come through from the youth set up and be stars in Town shirts. The brutal truth is that most of them don't make it, and the reason they don't make it is they are not good enough. Let's hope Storey is one of the exceptions. It's not just here that kids fall by the wayside - it's the same at every club, especially smaller ones like us whose best young talent usually gets snapped up by the Premier League vultures anyway. We are never likely to see a "Bert Head's Babes" era again. .
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I'm with PDC 100% on this.

I think the main point PdC is making is raised in the very comments that follow
.
Names like Rooney, Owen, Francis etc get banded about as playing at 17
.
Why nor throw in Messi or Ronaldo!
.
These were/are exceptions and not the norm - so to now start banding a STFC youth player in the same bracket is total noncense!
.
Even then likes of Beckham, Gerrard, Lamprd etc were not regulars at that age and they were "the golden generation"
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If Storey was as good (or even as half as good) as them he would have never been released by Coventry and would not be here now - i.e. he would have followed Henshall, Stephens or Thompson!
.
That is not to say Storey or any other youth coming through can't make a decent career or go all the way to the top - it just means we will never see a superstar here at STFC at the age 17/18
.
Hopefully that can change if/when we get back to the Championship - as Southampton, Palace etc have shown - but it will not happen in L1!

London Red wrote:
I think the main point PdC is making is raised in the very comments that follow
.
Names like Rooney, Owen, Francis etc get banded about as playing at 17
.
Why nor throw in Messi or Ronaldo!
.
These were/are exceptions and not the norm - so to now start banding a STFC youth player in the same bracket is total noncense!
.
Even then likes of Beckham, Gerrard, Lamprd etc were not regulars at that age and they were "the golden generation"
.
If Storey was as good (or even as half as good) as them he would have never been released by Coventry and would not be here now - i.e. he would have followed Henshall, Stephens or Thompson!
.
That is not to say Storey or any other youth coming through can't make a decent career or go all the way to the top - it just means we will never see a superstar here at STFC at the age 17/18
.
Hopefully that can change if/when we get back to the Championship - as Southampton, Palace etc have shown - but it will not happen in L1!

I don't agree with your "he would never have been released by Coventry" James,i know of several players who have come back after being released and some of those have gone on to play at a better level than the club that released them,
I do however agree that we should not over hype our youngsters.

Custodian sums it up for me,apart from the bit where he suggests that when Paolo goes we will fall down the leagues because no one else could do a decent job, many roads lead to Rome.

I think this reads an additional 2 ways:
1. To other clubs - he's not that good, don't come shopping for him in the January Window (i.e. go away he's ours)
2. To Miles - you're not that good that you should leave for another club to sit on the bench (John Tozer, Lukas at Everton etc.). Stay here, continue your development.

It's just put in the completely undiplomatic Paulo style.

And Miles is grounded, realisitic - he's rightfully impressed with his own current form and delighted to be recognised at England U19 level also but's he's aware he's only young and lots more development to come.
Keep it up Miles.

Oi Den! wrote:
I listened to the interview and I thought PDC spoke very well on this matter. He wasn't having a go at either of the Bodins or Storey. He was simply saying nobody knows how good the player is yet and he needs time to develop. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. . We all have this romantic idea that kids will come through from the youth set up and be stars in Town shirts. The brutal truth is that most of them don't make it, and the reason they don't make it is they are not good enough. Let's hope Storey is one of the exceptions. It's not just here that kids fall by the wayside - it's the same at every club, especially smaller ones like us whose best young talent usually gets snapped up by the Premier League vultures anyway. We are never likely to see a "Bert Head's Babes" era again. . . I'm with PDC 100% on this.

Excellent post Den.

Hearing words spoken and seeing the same words written can sometimes give the wrong impression.

I also re-read the article and I do not seeing anything that critcises Paul Bodin and the work he is doing.

COYMR

London Red wrote:
I think the main point PdC is making is raised in the very comments that follow . Names like Rooney, Owen, Francis etc get banded about as playing at 17 . Why nor throw in Messi or Ronaldo! . These were/are exceptions and not the norm - so to now start banding a STFC youth player in the same bracket is total noncense! . Even then likes of Beckham, Gerrard, Lamprd etc were not regulars at that age and they were "the golden generation" . If Storey was as good (or even as half as good) as them he would have never been released by Coventry and would not be here now - i.e. he would have followed Henshall, Stephens or Thompson! . That is not to say Storey or any other youth coming through can't make a decent career or go all the way to the top - it just means we will never see a superstar here at STFC at the age 17/18 . Hopefully that can change if/when we get back to the Championship - as Southampton, Palace etc have shown - but it will not happen in L1!

How would being in the Championship make a difference?
Surely with it being a higher standard it would make it more difficult to suceed.
Your logic is flawed LR.

dreamofacleansheet2 wrote:
Anyone seen Bolton are £136.5 million in debt of which £125 million is a long term debt to the owner. Makes you stop and think on our massive budget of £4.5 million, the same as two years ago.

Let's get behind the manager and the team. He studies psychology of the game and players massively, cajooling and praising when needed and bringing back down to earth and being critical when needed.

Just feel there is for some reason a bit of a witch hunt going on and can't for the life of me work out why.

I loved zippy as a player, I am delighted he is looking after our youth team, I think he is doing a brilliant job. I think most on here would agree with me? I also think the manager is doing a brilliant job. Shame that opinion isn't shared by quite so many....

As you say some posters are always lookiing to have a pop when ever a PDC statement comes out, not sure what these guys are looking for, as they never seem to read the arctical in a positive way, just looking for an angle to bash the manager with, very strange !!

My interpretation is that Miles has had a bit of a learning curve. Since being released by Coventry he has bulked up and had a hair cut. I think Paolo has to take credit for that he has said frequently that Miles is now more focussed on his football and less on 'appearance'.

So he has clearly heeded advice but now needs a run in the side to improve further. Imagine the confidence he would get if Paolo said to him he was getting a run of 5 games to show what he can do?

A different level admittedly but look at young Sterling at Liverpool. He's had a run of games and is shining and also now in the England set-up. I don't see Brendan Rodgers too concerned with his progress, nor having a pop at his youth set-up.

For me Storey needs a run in the side, it's not as if our other strikers are keeping him out with their scintillating form.

Bolton could be the next Pompey,just heard they are £136.5m in debt,they owe one man £125m,makes awful reading and now their not a prem club,it looks bleak!as for Paolo,we all know he's like ol big-head!as long as he's successful all will be well,if not that's when pressure builds!!!!!!!!!!

Hope Storey starts on Saturday in place of Collins.

Davethered wrote:
I still think Paul Bodin would make a far better manager than you Mr PDC

Joke of the day folks! At least I hope it was meant as a joke!

Malkym wrote:

Davethered wrote:
I still think Paul Bodin would make a far better manager than you Mr PDC

Joke of the day folks! At least I hope it was meant as a joke!

Didnt bite on that one as it seemed to obvious to jump in !!

I agree with Paolo that Storey needs help to keep his feet on he ground. The good news seems to be that he is!
The youth system is vital to us and with Paolo and Fabrizzio here we should be seeing evidence that it is being strengthened. Instead we see:- 1 There is no reserve or development set up to help in the transition from youth to full squad membership. (injuries or fall outs have given some game time for them but how do ones like Bedwell move forward) 2 There is obviously a problem between Paolo and Bodin and/or the youth set up. Needs sorting Sir Will because it impacts on our income potential and our sustainability in the Championship. I am afraid I am old enough to remember the Bert Head Babes and the enormous pride I had in seeing local lads make good. Would love to see it happen again but running out of time.

Dover Red wrote:

Malkym wrote:

Davethered wrote: I still think Paul Bodin would make a far better manager than you Mr PDC

Joke of the day folks! At least I hope it was meant as a joke!

Didnt bite on that one as it seemed to obvious to jump in !!

mmm! not so sure about that Dover!

its fine when people big him up and say he is favourite for the southampton job after one season he said on the radio after the sheff utd game its nice to see his name there it makes him feel like he is doing a good job i dont suppose that made him big headed! oops too late.
not playing miles because he has had some good press is stupid does he keep putting his players down because that is his way of getting the best out of them?
as for the injury rubbish without mccormack we have kept 3 clean sheets in the last 3 games and i think bostock has proved pdc wrong about being able to play in center mid hope when miller gets fit he doesnt just play him for the sake of it we look more creative with ferry and bostock

My logic is not flawed at all - the reason why is the better youths (ala Jukebox or Henshall) would not feel the need to jump ship ASAP but will see that they can get the experience/money they want at STFC
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Do you honestly think Palace would have held on to Zaha as long as they have if they were in L1?
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Would Powell have left Crewe already if they were in the Championship? possibly but less likely than being in L1!
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So as I said if/when we go up - we will be in a better position to keep any youths who are truely special as they won't disappear before we have a chance to play them - a certain Walcott springs to mind who left for Championship Saints!!!!!!

LR, you do seem to think promotion would be some kind of magic wand that will bring us everything we want. You said the other day that promotion would make us profitable. I can't claim to know the facts on this but my understanding is that profitable football clubs are very few and far between at any level. If we go up, we'll get more TV revenue, but gates will only improve dramatically if we are successful - and the wage bill will no doubt rocket whether we do well or not. As for our talented youngsters with itchy feet and stars in their eyes, if they are inclined to go to a big club, they will go. You may be right that promotion would improve our chances of holding onto them - but not by much.
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Promotion is what we all want. However, that's when the hard work would really start and - dare I say it - when we would find out just how good PDC is as a manager. The first job would be a big team rebuilding exercise. We wouldn't have the financial advantage we've had over most of our rivals for the last few years, and we would be competing against a lot of hardened campaigners at that level.
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I want promotion as much as any other Town fan; I'm as optimistic as most that we can do it. But it'll be no cakewalk when we get there.

THE TRANSLATION EXPLAINED

Perhaps the headlines should have been.
Miles is chomping on the bit to get first team football after the pairing YET AGAIN fires BLANKS.
Pdc has urged miles storey to remain calm after my misfits are not doing themselves any justice by missing many clear cut opportunities. I feel as a manager i would not like to burn miles out playing him week in week out
So Collins and willo must show to me how they scored those goals last season. Because as a manager I have improved them.
If and only if I play them on Saturday they must show to me the fans that I was right on my instinct.
After all if miles can do a better job then I have no worry in playing him.

Onwards and we won't finish in the top six as the embargo has made a massive impact on our plan
Paolo grim canio

I see that BBC Wiltshire are claiming Storey could be in line for a starting spot tonight.

Oi Den! wrote:
I listened to the interview and I thought PDC spoke very well on this matter. He wasn't having a go at either of the Bodins or Storey. He was simply saying nobody knows how good the player is yet and he needs time to develop. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
.
We all have this romantic idea that kids will come through from the youth set up and be stars in Town shirts. The brutal truth is that most of them don't make it, and the reason they don't make it is they are not good enough. Let's hope Storey is one of the exceptions. It's not just here that kids fall by the wayside - it's the same at every club, especially smaller ones like us whose best young talent usually gets snapped up by the Premier League vultures anyway. We are never likely to see a "Bert Head's Babes" era again. .
.
I'm with PDC 100% on this.

Well Said Den a lot on here jump on the sheep wagon.

Oi Den! wrote:
LR, you do seem to think promotion would be some kind of magic wand that will bring us everything we want. You said the other day that promotion would make us profitable. I can't claim to know the facts on this but my understanding is that profitable football clubs are very few and far between at any level. If we go up, we'll get more TV revenue, but gates will only improve dramatically if we are successful - and the wage bill will no doubt rocket whether we do well or not. As for our talented youngsters with itchy feet and stars in their eyes, if they are inclined to go to a big club, they will go. You may be right that promotion would improve our chances of holding onto them - but not by much.
.
Promotion is what we all want. However, that's when the hard work would really start and - dare I say it - when we would find out just how good PDC is as a manager. The first job would be a big team rebuilding exercise. We wouldn't have the financial advantage we've had over most of our rivals for the last few years, and we would be competing against a lot of hardened campaigners at that level.
.
I want promotion as much as any other Town fan; I'm as optimistic as most that we can do it. But it'll be no cakewalk when we get there.

" It'll be no cakewalk when we get there.” Too true - that`s why we`ve never been able to stay there for very long before !

I am a regular reader of this forum but an infrequent poster and I believe, as is often quoted, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. So it is with increasing exasperation that I am continually reading negative bolox being spouted about OUR manager. I would like to ask the mindless detractors to answer me one question 'where would we be know in terms of what we have achieved and the current profile of the club without Paolo?'
He has made his mistakes, I don't agree with everything he does but he has put our club back on the map and has been a source of inspiration to many. He is entitled to make comments about his players unfortunately these are frequently interpreted negatively when I genuinely believe they are meant to act as an incentive.
Just what do these people want?? There have been a succession of people in the past who have done genuine damage to both the reputation and wellbeing of STFC, Paolo has done exactly the opposite. Stop whining and start realising that what we
have is the envy of others. t ossers!!

Spot on posts from Den Grim & Umps in Chippy. Den yep more tv revenue but maybe lower gates CID we're on tv more? Grim - wee agreed on the misfiring toothless twosome & Umps dead right we've never had a even a reasonable length stay in the 2nd tier eh!

Im not slagging any player off,,
But i think PDC will know more about the players than we ever will...
He works with then 7 days a week..
Even Miles has said that he is not ready ??

Jock/Den - we are not suddenly going to be on TV 20 odd times a year - all it will mean is we are say on 3 or 4 instead of once
.
Most of the TV money is not actually from being picked to be played - but from the general pay out linked to the Parachute payments etc from the Premiership
.
All are welcome to do a quick google search as that is how I found this article where a Scunthorpe director said relegation would cost them £3.7m in these types of pay outs
.
Conisdering in both 2010 and 2011 we only got just over £1m - that would suggest our pay outs in the Championship would be close to £5m!!
.
Which is basically our total revenue now!
.
Gates are also likely to increase dramatically - just look back at our L1 games against Norwich, Leeds, Millwall, Huddersfield, Charlton, Southampton etc and all have been around 11-12k
.
These are not even the biggest teams in the Championship - so we are more than likely to match those gates and again against Birmingham, Wolves, Leicester, Bristol etc
.
So there is no way our gate receipts will fall!
.
Granted our wages will go up - but that is where the budget comes in - we simply budget to keep them at a level that our increase in revenue is not completely wiped out
.
Remember we are meant to have a massive wage bill already - so to compete (not for promotion but consolidation) in the Championship should mean we have to suddenly up our wages 3 fold
.
We could realistically be looking at doubling our revenue to around £10m
.
As I have said before our non footballing costs are not going to rocket with promotion - so could realistically stay at around £3m
.
That would therefore, mean we could have wages of up to £7m and not make a loss
.
Surely £7m is enough to see us compete/survive - on 25 pros that is over £5k a week - where the average in a recent report (again feel free to google it) said the average was £4.1k!
.
If we have proper financial management then profits can be made
.
If we simply blow our budget and spend well over that amount- then of course we will make a loss - but then that would be Andrew Black's fault for allowing it - so he would have to pay for it!
.
I fully understand why he is doing that in L1 - see stuff above - but wouldn't in the league above
.
Granted not all our youth will stay if we go up - but it would certainly give them more incentive as they could get international recognition and still get big money moves by staying longer an playing
.
There is a long list of examples from the championship but very few from below that!

Malkym wrote:
Spot on posts from Den Grim & Umps in Chippy. Den yep more tv revenue but maybe lower gates CID we're on tv more? Grim - wee agreed on the misfiring toothless twosome & Umps dead right we've never had a even a reasonable length stay in the 2nd tier eh!

Stop sucking people off Malky you wll rub all that lipstick off ;>)

Ask most other fans, they would love PDC in charge. Enjoy it whilst it still lasts there will not be another like him. In Paolo we trust!

London Red wrote:
Jock/Den - we are not suddenly going to be on TV 20 odd times a year - all it will mean is we are say on 3 or 4 instead of once
.
Most of the TV money is not actually from being picked to be played - but from the general pay out linked to the Parachute payments etc from the Premiership
.
All are welcome to do a quick google search as that is how I found this article where a Scunthorpe director said relegation would cost them £3.7m in these types of pay outs
.
Conisdering in both 2010 and 2011 we only got just over £1m - that would suggest our pay outs in the Championship would be close to £5m!!
.
Which is basically our total revenue now!
.
Gates are also likely to increase dramatically - just look back at our L1 games against Norwich, Leeds, Millwall, Huddersfield, Charlton, Southampton etc and all have been around 11-12k
.
These are not even the biggest teams in the Championship - so we are more than likely to match those gates and again against Birmingham, Wolves, Leicester, Bristol etc
.
So there is no way our gate receipts will fall!
.
Granted our wages will go up - but that is where the budget comes in - we simply budget to keep them at a level that our increase in revenue is not completely wiped out
.
Remember we are meant to have a massive wage bill already - so to compete (not for promotion but consolidation) in the Championship should mean we have to suddenly up our wages 3 fold
.
We could realistically be looking at doubling our revenue to around £10m
.
As I have said before our non footballing costs are not going to rocket with promotion - so could realistically stay at around £3m
.
That would therefore, mean we could have wages of up to £7m and not make a loss
.
Surely £7m is enough to see us compete/survive - on 25 pros that is over £5k a week - where the average in a recent report (again feel free to google it) said the average was £4.1k!
.
If we have proper financial management then profits can be made
.
If we simply blow our budget and spend well over that amount- then of course we will make a loss - but then that would be Andrew Black's fault for allowing it - so he would have to pay for it!
.
I fully understand why he is doing that in L1 - see stuff above - but wouldn't in the league above
.
Granted not all our youth will stay if we go up - but it would certainly give them more incentive as they could get international recognition and still get big money moves by staying longer an playing
.
There is a long list of examples from the championship but very few from below that!

Thank fcuk it wasnt you LR who wrote that book whats its name oh yeah the bible,that would off been a big book eh....

"... Andrew Black's fault for allowing it"? That one takes the biscuit, LR. By that reasoning, Black would be at fault for the embargo, when all the poor b*gger has done is plough shedloads of cash into the club. I think it's safe enough to say that our executive chairman, chief executive and team manager were there to look after the day-to-day running of the club. The fact that they didn't get it right between them might just have annoyed him a tad.

donaldslovechild wrote:
I am a regular reader of this forum but an infrequent poster and I believe, as is often quoted, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. So it is with increasing exasperation that I am continually reading negative bolox being spouted about OUR manager. I would like to ask the mindless detractors to answer me one question 'where would we be know in terms of what we have achieved and the current profile of the club without Paolo?'
He has made his mistakes, I don't agree with everything he does but he has put our club back on the map and has been a source of inspiration to many. He is entitled to make comments about his players unfortunately these are frequently interpreted negatively when I genuinely believe they are meant to act as an incentive.
Just what do these people want?? There have been a succession of people in the past who have done genuine damage to both the reputation and wellbeing of STFC, Paolo has done exactly the opposite. Stop whining and start realising that what we
have is the envy of others. t ossers!!

Sensible post this Don. Says it all really.

donaldslovechild wrote:
I am a regular reader of this forum but an infrequent poster and I believe, as is often quoted, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. So it is with increasing exasperation that I am continually reading negative bolox being spouted about OUR manager. I would like to ask the mindless detractors to answer me one question 'where would we be know in terms of what we have achieved and the current profile of the club without Paolo?'
He has made his mistakes, I don't agree with everything he does but he has put our club back on the map and has been a source of inspiration to many. He is entitled to make comments about his players unfortunately these are frequently interpreted negatively when I genuinely believe they are meant to act as an incentive.
Just what do these people want?? There have been a succession of people in the past who have done genuine damage to both the reputation and wellbeing of STFC, Paolo has done exactly the opposite. Stop whining and start realising that what we
have is the envy of others. t ossers!!

I think you would find that most people who feel moved to criticise PDC also take the time and trouble to recognise his positive qualities and his achievements so far. Of course there are some "mindless" people who will never give him credit for anything he does. I think they may be outweighed by the other "mindless" people who would never accept that he can do any wrong. Thankfully most of us do have minds and are quite capable of using them to think.

Oi Den! wrote:
"... Andrew Black's fault for allowing it"? That one takes the biscuit, LR. By that reasoning, Black would be at fault for the embargo, when all the poor b*gger has done is plough shedloads of cash into the club. I think it's safe enough to say that our executive chairman, chief executive and team manager were there to look after the day-to-day running of the club. The fact that they didn't get it right between them might just have annoyed him a tad.

Mostly, the higher up the league pyramid, the bigger a club's debt. I would love us to buck the trend but we're up against it, especially with the well-documented lack of revenue potential from our existing ground.
*
If average gates rise to 11-12k (a big assumption; average may be 10k), at most we might get an extra c£1m in revenue there. If we assume we can gain £3.7m in tv money that's great, but I fear we will still have a very modest playing budget compared with most in the Championship. Our current manager, bless him, will undoubtedly be pushing for the money required to compete on a level playing field.
*
They will be challenging times for everyone at the club - but let's get there first.

Den think you need to read it again - I said IF we went up not this year!
.
I fully understand why we are running at a loss currently
.
Yes I also appreciate there is a team - but being the owner he has the power to do what he wants - thus moving Wray on!
.
He alone could have kept the budget at its current level but HE approved it to be increased to £4.5m!
.
So he WILL be in charge of signing off any playing budget - so if he agrees to it being above a level that we can break even then he WILL have to expect to make up the short fall!
.
That's all I'm saying - we WILL get a massive boost in revenue and its up to the board (and Andrew Black in particular) to ensure costs are managed to not keep losses coming after that

Ramsbury - think you are heavily underestimating gate receipt increases
.
In 2010 we got in over £1m more than 2011 and both of them were in L1!
.
As I said before away following make a massive difference and in the Championship there are a large number of clubs who will bring 2k+
.
So even on our current level of home fans that will see us around 10k
.
However, as we have seen for games like Coventry this year and all the teams I mentioned earlier home fans turn up more for those types of games - so we should easily see gates of around 12k most Saturdays at least

Oi Den! wrote:

donaldslovechild wrote:
I am a regular reader of this forum but an infrequent poster and I believe, as is often quoted, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. So it is with increasing exasperation that I am continually reading negative bolox being spouted about OUR manager. I would like to ask the mindless detractors to answer me one question 'where would we be know in terms of what we have achieved and the current profile of the club without Paolo?'
He has made his mistakes, I don't agree with everything he does but he has put our club back on the map and has been a source of inspiration to many. He is entitled to make comments about his players unfortunately these are frequently interpreted negatively when I genuinely believe they are meant to act as an incentive.
Just what do these people want?? There have been a succession of people in the past who have done genuine damage to both the reputation and wellbeing of STFC, Paolo has done exactly the opposite. Stop whining and start realising that what we
have is the envy of others. t ossers!!

I think you would find that most people who feel moved to criticise PDC also take the time and trouble to recognise his positive qualities and his achievements so far. Of course there are some "mindless" people who will never give him credit for anything he does. I think they may be outweighed by the other "mindless" people who would never accept that he can do any wrong. Thankfully most of us do have minds and are quite capable of using them to think.

Den you are a regular contributor on here and and your opinions are balanced and always expressed with the clubs interests at heart. I hope I am not myopic in my opinion of Paolo, he is, as we all are, flawed. But I re-iterate my point that in what is essentially an entertainment industry we have an Oscar winning director in Paolo.

LR, of course the majority shareholder has the power to do what he wants, but the reason he appoints an executive chairman, a chief executive and a team manager is that he wants them to run the show. There are many people who own businesses but are happy to trust the day-to-day running of them to other people. How do you know that he approved the overspending? I think it's more likely that it arose from operational decisions that he left to his appointed team - and that's why JW is, sadly, no longer with the club..

Steve. Brentford wrote:

London Red wrote:
Jock/Den - we are not suddenly going to be on TV 20 odd times a year - all it will mean is we are say on 3 or 4 instead of once
.
Most of the TV money is not actually from being picked to be played - but from the general pay out linked to the Parachute payments etc from the Premiership
.
All are welcome to do a quick google search as that is how I found this article where a Scunthorpe director said relegation would cost them £3.7m in these types of pay outs
.
Conisdering in both 2010 and 2011 we only got just over £1m - that would suggest our pay outs in the Championship would be close to £5m!!
.
Which is basically our total revenue now!
.
Gates are also likely to increase dramatically - just look back at our L1 games against Norwich, Leeds, Millwall, Huddersfield, Charlton, Southampton etc and all have been around 11-12k
.
These are not even the biggest teams in the Championship - so we are more than likely to match those gates and again against Birmingham, Wolves, Leicester, Bristol etc
.
So there is no way our gate receipts will fall!
.
Granted our wages will go up - but that is where the budget comes in - we simply budget to keep them at a level that our increase in revenue is not completely wiped out
.
Remember we are meant to have a massive wage bill already - so to compete (not for promotion but consolidation) in the Championship should mean we have to suddenly up our wages 3 fold
.
We could realistically be looking at doubling our revenue to around £10m
.
As I have said before our non footballing costs are not going to rocket with promotion - so could realistically stay at around £3m
.
That would therefore, mean we could have wages of up to £7m and not make a loss
.
Surely £7m is enough to see us compete/survive - on 25 pros that is over £5k a week - where the average in a recent report (again feel free to google it) said the average was £4.1k!
.
If we have proper financial management then profits can be made
.
If we simply blow our budget and spend well over that amount- then of course we will make a loss - but then that would be Andrew Black's fault for allowing it - so he would have to pay for it!
.
I fully understand why he is doing that in L1 - see stuff above - but wouldn't in the league above
.
Granted not all our youth will stay if we go up - but it would certainly give them more incentive as they could get international recognition and still get big money moves by staying longer an playing
.
There is a long list of examples from the championship but very few from below that!

Thank fcuk it wasnt you LR who wrote that book whats its name oh yeah the bible,that would off been a big book eh....

Nice one Steve and as usual from you, very dry!

Your earlier comment to Malky about his lipstick was also very funny, but I think some of that is my fault, having suggested to Malky late last night that he had lost his edge with his comments. Yes, my fault I think Steve, sorry Malky.

Granted - the current overspend might have been unknown and could be partially the reason why JW was moved on - but why not NW? After all SWP said its the CEOs job to run the business!
.
But the increase of the budget to £4.5m is certainly not unknown!
.
I do understand lots of people leave the business they own to be run by others - but they are not normally a member of a very small board like we have
.
I can guarantee you when the budgets are put together Andrew Black is certain of what the numbers will be and what shortfall he is likely to face!
.
As I said I fully understand why we are running at a loss currently and know why AB will be funding this (think I'm alone there though)

donaldslovechild wrote:

Oi Den! wrote:

donaldslovechild wrote:
I am a regular reader of this forum but an infrequent poster and I believe, as is often quoted, that everyone is entitled to their opinion. So it is with increasing exasperation that I am continually reading negative bolox being spouted about OUR manager. I would like to ask the mindless detractors to answer me one question 'where would we be know in terms of what we have achieved and the current profile of the club without Paolo?'
He has made his mistakes, I don't agree with everything he does but he has put our club back on the map and has been a source of inspiration to many. He is entitled to make comments about his players unfortunately these are frequently interpreted negatively when I genuinely believe they are meant to act as an incentive.
Just what do these people want?? There have been a succession of people in the past who have done genuine damage to both the reputation and wellbeing of STFC, Paolo has done exactly the opposite. Stop whining and start realising that what we
have is the envy of others. t ossers!!

I think you would find that most people who feel moved to criticise PDC also take the time and trouble to recognise his positive qualities and his achievements so far. Of course there are some "mindless" people who will never give him credit for anything he does. I think they may be outweighed by the other "mindless" people who would never accept that he can do any wrong. Thankfully most of us do have minds and are quite capable of using them to think.

Den you are a regular contributor on here and and your opinions are balanced and always expressed with the clubs interests at heart. I hope I am not myopic in my opinion of Paolo, he is, as we all are, flawed. But I re-iterate my point that in what is essentially an entertainment industry we have an Oscar winning director in Paolo.

Donald, I don't see your opinion of PDC as myopic. It's just that I don't think we should shy away from discussing either the positives or the negatives. I'd like to answer your "where would be without Paolo?" point. Well, life would certainly be different, probably not as eventful, but not necessarily less successful. If we take the view that PDC is the only manager who could have got us to this position with the backing provided by Black and co, how do we explain the fact that other managers have galvanised their clubs using much smaller resources?

London Red wrote:
Jock/Den - we are not suddenly going to be on TV 20 odd times a year - all it will mean is we are say on 3 or 4 instead of once . Most of the TV money is not actually from being picked to be played - but from the general pay out linked to the Parachute payments etc from the Premiership . All are welcome to do a quick google search as that is how I found this article where a Scunthorpe director said relegation would cost them £3.7m in these types of pay outs . Conisdering in both 2010 and 2011 we only got just over £1m - that would suggest our pay outs in the Championship would be close to £5m!! . Which is basically our total revenue now! . Gates are also likely to increase dramatically - just look back at our L1 games against Norwich, Leeds, Millwall, Huddersfield, Charlton, Southampton etc and all have been around 11-12k . These are not even the biggest teams in the Championship - so we are more than likely to match those gates and again against Birmingham, Wolves, Leicester, Bristol etc . So there is no way our gate receipts will fall! . Granted our wages will go up - but that is where the budget comes in - we simply budget to keep them at a level that our increase in revenue is not completely wiped out . Remember we are meant to have a massive wage bill already - so to compete (not for promotion but consolidation) in the Championship should mean we have to suddenly up our wages 3 fold . We could realistically be looking at doubling our revenue to around £10m . As I have said before our non footballing costs are not going to rocket with promotion - so could realistically stay at around £3m . That would therefore, mean we could have wages of up to £7m and not make a loss . Surely £7m is enough to see us compete/survive - on 25 pros that is over £5k a week - where the average in a recent report (again feel free to google it) said the average was £4.1k! . If we have proper financial management then profits can be made . If we simply blow our budget and spend well over that amount- then of course we will make a loss - but then that would be Andrew Black's fault for allowing it - so he would have to pay for it! . I fully understand why he is doing that in L1 - see stuff above - but wouldn't in the league above . Granted not all our youth will stay if we go up - but it would certainly give them more incentive as they could get international recognition and still get big money moves by staying longer an playing . There is a long list of examples from the championship but very few from below that!

7M is no way near enough money for a championship budget..Only if you wont to go straight back down...

Players fees and wages will be at least double and thats for average players..
Mr Spencers Agent fees will be at least 1m to 2m.

Yes the crowds will go up but not to the average that some people think....

IF we get there entrance fees and season tickets will shoot up..
ps this is not a pop at you

Looks like you might be right there Darren - the article linked (granted is from 2010) states the average was £15m!
.
That's a lot higher than I thought considering the same year was meant to have a average wage of £4k
.
Guess lots had massive squads - as £15m at 4k is 50 players!
.
Bit of conflicting info there! Unless bonuses make up a huge portion of oral wage bills!
.
QPR spent £29.1m when they went up at 185% of their income!
.
The same article which said the average was £15m said Preston cut their bill from £11.5m to £6.5m - look where they are now!!!!!
.
http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/sport/footb
all/football-league/
championship-clubs-t
o-adopt-wage-restrai
nts-2294780.html

Oral? Try overall

London Red wrote:
Oral? Try overall

LR,

I'd prefer 'oral' to 'overall' any day of the flipping' week.

Just wondering where Wizard is? Hope he is well.

London when Billy Paynter went to Leeds I understood he got 10k a week. He got huge amount of stick from Town fans but that's a lot of cash in anyone's book. (Source Leeds director).

That said Paolo has proved that with his analysis he can get teams to beat higher league sides so I think he can do it in the Championship. He has made many mistakes but we have a young squad that will continue to improve. Keep the faith people, despite all the speculation on here with Andrew Balack and Paolo we are looking good....

London Red wrote:
Looks like you might be right there Darren - the article linked (granted is from 2010) states the average was £15m!
.
That's a lot higher than I thought considering the same year was meant to have a average wage of £4k
.
Guess lots had massive squads - as £15m at 4k is 50 players!
.
Bit of conflicting info there! Unless bonuses make up a huge portion of oral wage bills!
.
QPR spent £29.1m when they went up at 185% of their income!
.
The same article which said the average was £15m said Preston cut their bill from £11.5m to £6.5m - look where they are now!!!!!
.
http://www.independe

nt.co.uk/sport/footb

all/football-league/

championship-clubs-t

o-adopt-wage-restrai

nts-2294780.html

Well that article summarises what I have been trying to say.
*
My off-the-cuff £1m increase was based on current income of £2.3m from ticket sales. I may have 'mis-remembered' this figure, but if right I cannot see us increasing gate receipts by 50 per cent, hence c.£1m.
*
Fact is, the Championship is a very dangerous place to be, as the article makes clear. Unless one is prepared for mid-lower table obscurity perhaps. Would we settle for that? Maybe, with the odd cup run and giant-killing, it would be enough to keep us all happy.

After tonight hasn;t Miles had nearly as much game time for England Under 19's as he has all season at at Town? :)

Paolo has achieved some success here but couldn't other managers have also achieved that success with the tools at their disposal that he has been given? People criticise Wilson but I don't think you will find that he wanted Greer, Paynter and Austin sold, the spine of his team........

Andy Evo wrote:
After tonight hasn;t Miles had nearly as much game time for England Under 19's as he has all season at at Town? :)

Paolo has achieved some success here but couldn't other managers have also achieved that success with the tools at their disposal that he has been given? People criticise Wilson but I don't think you will find that he wanted Greer, Paynter and Austin sold, the spine of his team........

Correct Andy. I always said that Danny Wilson was very much better than he was given credit for, if he now had the crazy money PDC has wasted, history would almost certainly be different for all of us.

London Red wrote:
Looks like you might be right there Darren - the article linked (granted is from 2010) states the average was £15m! . That's a lot higher than I thought considering the same year was meant to have a average wage of £4k . Guess lots had massive squads - as £15m at 4k is 50 players! . Bit of conflicting info there! Unless bonuses make up a huge portion of oral wage bills! . QPR spent £29.1m when they went up at 185% of their income! . The same article which said the average was £15m said Preston cut their bill from £11.5m to £6.5m - look where they are now!!!!! . http://www.independe nt.co.uk/sport/footb all/football-league/ championship-clubs-t o-adopt-wage-restrai nts-2294780.html

You wont get a dogshat c/ship player on 4k..
BUT 15M is a lot of money and i dont think STFC would last long as a club let alone a team..
NOW YOU CAN SEE WHY SO MANY CLUBS ARE IN THE SHAT

Now we can see why Bill Patey has been brought in, to secure sufficient investment to keep us in the CCC should we get there. I think most of us would be happy to see the club sitting somewhere mid table in the CCC. What people also have to realise is that should we have ambition beyond that, the ticket prices will turn many away from being as regular as they are now in attendance on cost alone. Most of the supporters are on "middle income" wages and I dare say with rising household costs even now some are finding it difficult. Rack the admission up and the gates will fall, but the argument is the admission would have to go up to cover increased salaries. There has to be a balance of how far this club can go, finding it will be more difficult than most of us imagine. With that I'll say good night.

joey butler wrote:

Andy Evo wrote: After tonight hasn;t Miles had nearly as much game time for England Under 19's as he has all season at at Town? :) Paolo has achieved some success here but couldn't other managers have also achieved that success with the tools at their disposal that he has been given? People criticise Wilson but I don't think you will find that he wanted Greer, Paynter and Austin sold, the spine of his team........

Correct Andy. I always said that Danny Wilson was very much better than he was given credit for, if he now had the crazy money PDC has wasted, history would almost certainly be different for all of us.

Blasted Bleak keep nibbling the maggots. Keep feeding the Chub might move in.

COYMR

dreamofacleansheet2 wrote:
London when Billy Paynter went to Leeds I understood he got 10k a week. He got huge amount of stick from Town fans but that's a lot of cash in anyone's book. (Source Leeds director).

That said Paolo has proved that with his analysis he can get teams to beat higher league sides so I think he can do it in the Championship. He has made many mistakes but we have a young squad that will continue to improve. Keep the faith people, despite all the speculation on here with Andrew Balack and Paolo we are looking good....

Dreamo, sadly I think most cup "upsets" these days are devalued by the attitude of many clubs and managers. A few wins in Cup competitions are no indication that we could survive at a higher level with an understrength squad. PDC might be able to engineer the odd surprise victory but the only way you can have a good season in any division is to have a team / squad built for that level. Anyway, it's all pie in the sky at the moment. We've got to get there first.