Driver stops bus and leaves girl, 13, stranded in Pewsey

Andrew Mundy and his 13-year-old daughter Freya. She was stranded when the driver of a bus she was travelling on turfed off his passengers because he had gone over his hours. Picture by Diane Vose

Andrew Mundy and his 13-year-old daughter Freya. She was stranded when the driver of a bus she was travelling on turfed off his passengers because he had gone over his hours. Picture by Diane Vose

First published in News
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Furious father Andrew Mundy has slammed a Wiltshire bus service as a disgrace after the driver suddenly stopped work and told passengers to wait an hour for the next one to come along.

Several passengers were “turfed off” the Salisbury Reds vehicle in Pewsey while people waiting at the bus stop were also informed that he wasn’t driving any further, said Mr Mundy.

One of those waiting at the stop for the X5 Salisbury to Marlborough service was Mr Mundy’s 13-year-old daughter Freya.

After being forced to hang around a further hour in Pewsey the youngster missed her dental appointment in Marlborough while others on the bus were also left stunned and angry at being so late.

Mr Mundy, 49, of Pewsey, said: “This is absolutely unacceptable. To turf passengers off the bus and tell them to wait an hour is incredible. It’s almost impossible to believe that this should be allowed to happen.”

Freya was in a queue of people waiting for the 12.30pm Salisbury Reds bus in Pewsey last Friday.

Mr Mundy said the bus arrived at 12.45pm whereupon the driver, much to everyone’s disbelief, off loaded all of the existing passengers.

He told them and those waiting to board that he had “gone over his hours” and that he was terminating the service.

“All that the passengers were told was that another bus will be along – in an hour.”

Freya was supposed to meet her mother Claire in Marlborough before going onto the dentist’s.

“She missed the appointment which I know I will be charged for,” said Mr Mundy.

He said there were several “verbal exchanges” between some of the passengers and the driver but that he was adamant that he wouldn’t drive any further.

Mr Mundy, the manager of an electronic installation company, said: “People rely on public transport to get to where they need to be on time. How many other people using that service had appointments or meetings and were late and didn’t make them?

“What really frustrates me is that there doesn’t seem to be any redress or any responsibility. They do it and expect people to accept it. And yet we are told by local authorities and the transport companies themselves that we should use public transport. Public transport – more like a public joke.”

It is the second time in recent months that the Salisbury Reds X5 service has been slammed by an angry parent after being unexpectedly terminated in Pewsey.

In May, Lorna Pollard said her 22-year-old special needs son Dane had to walk five miles home to Oare after the driver said he was terminating the 6.30pm service because there were no passengers on board in Pewsey.

Ms Pollard said: “I was furious because I rely on the bus to keep him safe and bring him home from work.”

Andrew Sherrington, Salisbury Reds operations manager, said: “I am aware of an incident recently, where some of our passengers were asked to leave the Salisbury Reds X5 bus at Pewsey.

“We pride ourselves on the high level of service we provide here in Wiltshire and I am concerned when any of our customers are unhappy.

“In view of this, we are conducting a full internal investigation to determine the reasons behind this event.

“We will also take the opportunity to make improvements to our communications about this service – and ensure that customers are kept fully informed of any route or timetable updates.”

Comments (38)

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7:49pm Fri 15 Aug 14

ace reporter says...

Surely there must be a service level agreement or contract in place with the licensing authority Wiltshire Council, and company has breached terms go that contract? Absurd, if not.
Surely there must be a service level agreement or contract in place with the licensing authority Wiltshire Council, and company has breached terms go that contract? Absurd, if not. ace reporter
  • Score: 1

12:14pm Sat 16 Aug 14

shed says...

I think you will find that this hours limit which forces drivers to have to change at Pewsey is yet another bit of EU legislation, not down to Salisbury Reds.
Although Salisbury Reds need to get their act together it seems, by working out where their drivers will be when their time runs out .
I think you will find that this hours limit which forces drivers to have to change at Pewsey is yet another bit of EU legislation, not down to Salisbury Reds. Although Salisbury Reds need to get their act together it seems, by working out where their drivers will be when their time runs out . shed
  • Score: 5

1:31pm Sat 16 Aug 14

wiltshirecouncilwherenobodygivesashlt says...

ace reporter wrote:
Surely there must be a service level agreement or contract in place with the licensing authority Wiltshire Council, and company has breached terms go that contract? Absurd, if not.
You must be a reporter for the G & H. Could we have that in English now please?
[quote][p][bold]ace reporter[/bold] wrote: Surely there must be a service level agreement or contract in place with the licensing authority Wiltshire Council, and company has breached terms go that contract? Absurd, if not.[/p][/quote]You must be a reporter for the G & H. Could we have that in English now please? wiltshirecouncilwherenobodygivesashlt
  • Score: 8

5:18pm Sat 16 Aug 14

Phorever says...

The driver did the correct thing.
The laws governing drivers hours are very tight. I bet there would be an outcry if the driver continued and got caught, with people saying 'He could of killed xxx if he had fallen asleep at the wheel.'
So some people got stranded. But at least the law wasn't broken.
The driver did the correct thing. The laws governing drivers hours are very tight. I bet there would be an outcry if the driver continued and got caught, with people saying 'He could of killed xxx if he had fallen asleep at the wheel.' So some people got stranded. But at least the law wasn't broken. Phorever
  • Score: 0

8:41am Sun 17 Aug 14

politepanda says...

It's a safety issue? Journeys end wherever - any random bus stop, passengers are left in the middle of nowhere with no notice - and it's happening more regularly.
SO - the driver - knowing he has only 15 mins left before he has to "finish" - STILL picks up PAYING passengers who have a 25, 45 (whatever) minute journey ahead of them. Then ends the journey at the nearest stop to his shift end, and he ALSO gets of the bus to walk "home"?? No - he DRIVES the SAME bus "home".
Why can't there be an agreement that a stand-in driver meets the bus to enable all passengers to complete their journey - after all - if it's the miniscule problem that the bus companies claim it is - it wouldn't be a huge cost, would it - it would rarely have to happen..........?
But this: "“We will also take the opportunity to make improvements to our communications about this service – and ensure that customers are kept fully informed of any route or timetable updates.”" doesn't bode well.
How does THAT statement change anything? It's just a waste of words. Sounds like someone doesn't want to look at resolution.
It's a safety issue? Journeys end wherever - any random bus stop, passengers are left in the middle of nowhere with no notice - and it's happening more regularly. SO - the driver - knowing he has only 15 mins left before he has to "finish" - STILL picks up PAYING passengers who have a 25, 45 (whatever) minute journey ahead of them. Then ends the journey at the nearest stop to his shift end, and he ALSO gets of the bus to walk "home"?? No - he DRIVES the SAME bus "home". Why can't there be an agreement that a stand-in driver meets the bus to enable all passengers to complete their journey - after all - if it's the miniscule problem that the bus companies claim it is - it wouldn't be a huge cost, would it - it would rarely have to happen..........? But this: "“We will also take the opportunity to make improvements to our communications about this service – and ensure that customers are kept fully informed of any route or timetable updates.”" doesn't bode well. How does THAT statement change anything? It's just a waste of words. Sounds like someone doesn't want to look at resolution. politepanda
  • Score: 7

10:44am Sun 17 Aug 14

Phorever says...

There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours.
Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations.
UK Tachograph regulations,
EU tachograph regulations.
Mobile workers time directive.
All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time.
If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers.
He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'.
So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff.
So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.
There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours. Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations. UK Tachograph regulations, EU tachograph regulations. Mobile workers time directive. All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time. If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers. He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'. So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff. So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture. Phorever
  • Score: -4

1:13pm Sun 17 Aug 14

politepanda says...

Phorever wrote:
There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours.
Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations.
UK Tachograph regulations,
EU tachograph regulations.
Mobile workers time directive.
All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time.
If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers.
He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'.
So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff.
So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.
Or the company could recognise the "bigger picture" themselves and work on a suitable resolution that DOESN'T leave children and vulnerable people stranded. Nothing selfish about being annoyed that your 13yr old daughter was left in the wrong village for an hour.
[quote][p][bold]Phorever[/bold] wrote: There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours. Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations. UK Tachograph regulations, EU tachograph regulations. Mobile workers time directive. All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time. If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers. He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'. So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff. So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.[/p][/quote]Or the company could recognise the "bigger picture" themselves and work on a suitable resolution that DOESN'T leave children and vulnerable people stranded. Nothing selfish about being annoyed that your 13yr old daughter was left in the wrong village for an hour. politepanda
  • Score: 16

5:48pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Hardens says...

Phorever wrote:
There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours.
Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations.
UK Tachograph regulations,
EU tachograph regulations.
Mobile workers time directive.
All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time.
If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers.
He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'.
So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff.
So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.
Or, because these laws have been in place for a while now, the company and it's employees could perhaps learn to adapt to these difficult conditions and put a system in place where the selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...
[quote][p][bold]Phorever[/bold] wrote: There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours. Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations. UK Tachograph regulations, EU tachograph regulations. Mobile workers time directive. All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time. If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers. He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'. So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff. So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.[/p][/quote]Or, because these laws have been in place for a while now, the company and it's employees could perhaps learn to adapt to these difficult conditions and put a system in place where the selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever... Hardens
  • Score: 4

5:52pm Sun 17 Aug 14

chrisbizarre says...

You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem.
For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g
overnment/publicatio
ns/rules-on-drivers-
hours-and-tachograph
s-passenger-vehicles

It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.
You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem. For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/publicatio ns/rules-on-drivers- hours-and-tachograph s-passenger-vehicles It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research. chrisbizarre
  • Score: 0

6:12pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Hardens says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem.
For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g

overnment/publicatio

ns/rules-on-drivers-

hours-and-tachograph

s-passenger-vehicles


It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.
Funnily enough pretty much anyone providing a service or product have to abide by certain laws/rules to ensure safety etc. I must admit I've never had the audacity to tell a complaining customer that they should shut up because they almost certainly wouldn't be able to do a better because of the rules we have to remember. Actually all service providers have a unique set of conditions and "traffic" is one of those that transport providers have to cope with quite regularly I would imagine, I'm a layman but could easily imagine a system where a driver calls for assistance in advance in order that a replacement driver is ready to take over the bus before passengers are to be "turfed off".
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem. For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/publicatio ns/rules-on-drivers- hours-and-tachograph s-passenger-vehicles It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.[/p][/quote]Funnily enough pretty much anyone providing a service or product have to abide by certain laws/rules to ensure safety etc. I must admit I've never had the audacity to tell a complaining customer that they should shut up because they almost certainly wouldn't be able to do a better because of the rules we have to remember. Actually all service providers have a unique set of conditions and "traffic" is one of those that transport providers have to cope with quite regularly I would imagine, I'm a layman but could easily imagine a system where a driver calls for assistance in advance in order that a replacement driver is ready to take over the bus before passengers are to be "turfed off". Hardens
  • Score: 10

7:03pm Sun 17 Aug 14

politepanda says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem.
For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g

overnment/publicatio

ns/rules-on-drivers-

hours-and-tachograph

s-passenger-vehicles


It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.
You're missing the point. The drivers EMPLOYER could put measures into place to ensure that young and/or vulnerable passengers aren't left stranded. It wouldn't be that difficult.
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem. For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/publicatio ns/rules-on-drivers- hours-and-tachograph s-passenger-vehicles It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. The drivers EMPLOYER could put measures into place to ensure that young and/or vulnerable passengers aren't left stranded. It wouldn't be that difficult. politepanda
  • Score: 12

7:07pm Sun 17 Aug 14

politepanda says...

Hardens wrote:
Phorever wrote:
There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours.
Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations.
UK Tachograph regulations,
EU tachograph regulations.
Mobile workers time directive.
All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time.
If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers.
He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'.
So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff.
So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.
Or, because these laws have been in place for a while now, the company and it's employees could perhaps learn to adapt to these difficult conditions and put a system in place where the selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...
""selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...""
Oh right - so which one of the recent complainants wasn't expected at a specific time and place for various reasons?
[quote][p][bold]Hardens[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phorever[/bold] wrote: There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours. Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations. UK Tachograph regulations, EU tachograph regulations. Mobile workers time directive. All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time. If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers. He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'. So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff. So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.[/p][/quote]Or, because these laws have been in place for a while now, the company and it's employees could perhaps learn to adapt to these difficult conditions and put a system in place where the selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...[/p][/quote]""selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever..."" Oh right - so which one of the recent complainants wasn't expected at a specific time and place for various reasons? politepanda
  • Score: 8

8:06pm Sun 17 Aug 14

chrisbizarre says...

politepanda, I am not missing the point. I know what you are saying should happen but in the real world where most of us live life is not perfect and things go wrong. The last time I drove a service bus there wasn't a crystal ball in the cab and us drivers have no idea what will delay us, when or by how much. I will give you a scenario to ponder over. A driver starts a 4 hour round trip on time and proceeds to the terminus arriving 15 minutes late. He now knows that if all is well he will be able to complete the return trip without having to have a break and he has 15 minutes extra. However, on the return trip he is delayed again by 20 minutes. If he does not make up time he will not be able to complete the service within the 4.5 hour limit. The driver loses more time and has to stop.
The company gave the driver an extra half an hour to complete the trip so reasonably allowed for delays, the driver did his best but events conspired against him so what do you suggest be done?
What do you suggest be done?
politepanda, I am not missing the point. I know what you are saying should happen but in the real world where most of us live life is not perfect and things go wrong. The last time I drove a service bus there wasn't a crystal ball in the cab and us drivers have no idea what will delay us, when or by how much. I will give you a scenario to ponder over. A driver starts a 4 hour round trip on time and proceeds to the terminus arriving 15 minutes late. He now knows that if all is well he will be able to complete the return trip without having to have a break and he has 15 minutes extra. However, on the return trip he is delayed again by 20 minutes. If he does not make up time he will not be able to complete the service within the 4.5 hour limit. The driver loses more time and has to stop. The company gave the driver an extra half an hour to complete the trip so reasonably allowed for delays, the driver did his best but events conspired against him so what do you suggest be done? What do you suggest be done? chrisbizarre
  • Score: -1

8:09pm Sun 17 Aug 14

chrisbizarre says...

Sorry about asking the same question twice. The perils of proof reading a post then editing it are plain to see there.
Sorry about asking the same question twice. The perils of proof reading a post then editing it are plain to see there. chrisbizarre
  • Score: 0

10:04pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Locksmith says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
politepanda, I am not missing the point. I know what you are saying should happen but in the real world where most of us live life is not perfect and things go wrong. The last time I drove a service bus there wasn't a crystal ball in the cab and us drivers have no idea what will delay us, when or by how much. I will give you a scenario to ponder over. A driver starts a 4 hour round trip on time and proceeds to the terminus arriving 15 minutes late. He now knows that if all is well he will be able to complete the return trip without having to have a break and he has 15 minutes extra. However, on the return trip he is delayed again by 20 minutes. If he does not make up time he will not be able to complete the service within the 4.5 hour limit. The driver loses more time and has to stop.
The company gave the driver an extra half an hour to complete the trip so reasonably allowed for delays, the driver did his best but events conspired against him so what do you suggest be done?
What do you suggest be done?
No, you definitely miss the point. Forget about all this detail of 20 mins delay etc. etc. the only people that matter are the customers. This is 2014, if a bus is delayed and a driver cannot legally complete his journey, the bus company should be aware of the delay (by the miracle of the mobile phone or text) and have another driver ready to complete the journey. Companies exist because of customers, leave them on the side of the road and you deserve to go bust.
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: politepanda, I am not missing the point. I know what you are saying should happen but in the real world where most of us live life is not perfect and things go wrong. The last time I drove a service bus there wasn't a crystal ball in the cab and us drivers have no idea what will delay us, when or by how much. I will give you a scenario to ponder over. A driver starts a 4 hour round trip on time and proceeds to the terminus arriving 15 minutes late. He now knows that if all is well he will be able to complete the return trip without having to have a break and he has 15 minutes extra. However, on the return trip he is delayed again by 20 minutes. If he does not make up time he will not be able to complete the service within the 4.5 hour limit. The driver loses more time and has to stop. The company gave the driver an extra half an hour to complete the trip so reasonably allowed for delays, the driver did his best but events conspired against him so what do you suggest be done? What do you suggest be done?[/p][/quote]No, you definitely miss the point. Forget about all this detail of 20 mins delay etc. etc. the only people that matter are the customers. This is 2014, if a bus is delayed and a driver cannot legally complete his journey, the bus company should be aware of the delay (by the miracle of the mobile phone or text) and have another driver ready to complete the journey. Companies exist because of customers, leave them on the side of the road and you deserve to go bust. Locksmith
  • Score: 13

10:13pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Hardens says...

politepanda wrote:
Hardens wrote:
Phorever wrote:
There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours.
Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations.
UK Tachograph regulations,
EU tachograph regulations.
Mobile workers time directive.
All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time.
If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers.
He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'.
So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff.
So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.
Or, because these laws have been in place for a while now, the company and it's employees could perhaps learn to adapt to these difficult conditions and put a system in place where the selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...
""selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...""
Oh right - so which one of the recent complainants wasn't expected at a specific time and place for various reasons?
It was a facetious response to Phorever's "selfish passengers" remark...
[quote][p][bold]politepanda[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hardens[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phorever[/bold] wrote: There may of been a number of factors that interfere with drivers hours. Drivers have to follow three sets of regulations. UK Tachograph regulations, EU tachograph regulations. Mobile workers time directive. All three conflict with each other, and it can be quite easy to lose track of time. If he was a goods vehicle driver, he would of looked for somewhere to park up in the last half hour. But obviously you cant do this with a bus full of passengers. He had to take into account where he was, where he had to park up, the traffic between the two, the time the next shift started, his average hours over past three weeks. The total hours for the past two weeks. All this leads to 'I must head back at x time'. So sorry if a few people were inconvenienced, but had the driver gone over his hours it would of lead to a hefty fine (>£5,000) for the driver, a large fine (>£25,000) for the company, and could in extreme circumstances lead to prison, and/or the company loosing their operators license, and having to lay off staff. So these passengers should stop being so selfish and think of the bigger picture.[/p][/quote]Or, because these laws have been in place for a while now, the company and it's employees could perhaps learn to adapt to these difficult conditions and put a system in place where the selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever...[/p][/quote]""selfish passengers are not inconvenienced during their daily ramblings around the countryside with no particular place to be at any time whatsoever..."" Oh right - so which one of the recent complainants wasn't expected at a specific time and place for various reasons?[/p][/quote]It was a facetious response to Phorever's "selfish passengers" remark... Hardens
  • Score: 0

10:17pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Phorever says...

politepanda wrote:
chrisbizarre wrote:
You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem.
For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g


overnment/publicatio


ns/rules-on-drivers-


hours-and-tachograph


s-passenger-vehicles



It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.
You're missing the point. The drivers EMPLOYER could put measures into place to ensure that young and/or vulnerable passengers aren't left stranded. It wouldn't be that difficult.
There could be a load of reasons.Perhaps a driver phone in sick, with many drivers on holiday. (Like most parents are forced to take holidays in this 6 week period or face fines.)
Perhaps there was no other driver with enough time left to come and relieve the driver in question. With the drivers boss saying 'press on drive, till you can drive no more and we will see if we can do something about it'.
Perhaps there was no other option than to have the driver off load the passengers on the road side. No haulage company will abandon a load unless there is no choice.
[quote][p][bold]politepanda[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem. For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/publicatio ns/rules-on-drivers- hours-and-tachograph s-passenger-vehicles It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. The drivers EMPLOYER could put measures into place to ensure that young and/or vulnerable passengers aren't left stranded. It wouldn't be that difficult.[/p][/quote]There could be a load of reasons.Perhaps a driver phone in sick, with many drivers on holiday. (Like most parents are forced to take holidays in this 6 week period or face fines.) Perhaps there was no other driver with enough time left to come and relieve the driver in question. With the drivers boss saying 'press on drive, till you can drive no more and we will see if we can do something about it'. Perhaps there was no other option than to have the driver off load the passengers on the road side. No haulage company will abandon a load unless there is no choice. Phorever
  • Score: -4

10:32pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Hardens says...

Phorever wrote:
politepanda wrote:
chrisbizarre wrote:
You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem.
For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g



overnment/publicatio



ns/rules-on-drivers-



hours-and-tachograph



s-passenger-vehicles




It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.
You're missing the point. The drivers EMPLOYER could put measures into place to ensure that young and/or vulnerable passengers aren't left stranded. It wouldn't be that difficult.
There could be a load of reasons.Perhaps a driver phone in sick, with many drivers on holiday. (Like most parents are forced to take holidays in this 6 week period or face fines.)
Perhaps there was no other driver with enough time left to come and relieve the driver in question. With the drivers boss saying 'press on drive, till you can drive no more and we will see if we can do something about it'.
Perhaps there was no other option than to have the driver off load the passengers on the road side. No haulage company will abandon a load unless there is no choice.
I'm pretty sure everyone appreciates that things happen which are outside the driver's control but it is the bus operator's responsibility to ensure passengers are not abandoned in this way.
[quote][p][bold]Phorever[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]politepanda[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: You cannot keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Non professional drivers have no idea what rules are in place regarding drivers' hours. The headline to this article should be changed to 'Driver forced to stop driving bus by EU regulations'. The fact a 13yr old girl was stranded is a consequence of the problem not THE problem. For those of you not aware exactly what rules drivers have to cope with you can download a copy here https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/publicatio ns/rules-on-drivers- hours-and-tachograph s-passenger-vehicles It is a 52 page document and every driver is expected to know eveything that is in it. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you think you could keep yourself within the law and provide a good service at the same time? If you can answer yes to that apply for a job at a bus company and see how long it takes before you have to make a choice of breaking the law or leaving passengers stranded. Usually this is down to late running caused by unexpected traffic problems. Breaking the law attracts a large fine for the driver whereas stranding passengers does not. The driver did nothing wrong and should not be villified for keeping within the law. Typical sensationalistic reporting from the G&H without doing their research.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. The drivers EMPLOYER could put measures into place to ensure that young and/or vulnerable passengers aren't left stranded. It wouldn't be that difficult.[/p][/quote]There could be a load of reasons.Perhaps a driver phone in sick, with many drivers on holiday. (Like most parents are forced to take holidays in this 6 week period or face fines.) Perhaps there was no other driver with enough time left to come and relieve the driver in question. With the drivers boss saying 'press on drive, till you can drive no more and we will see if we can do something about it'. Perhaps there was no other option than to have the driver off load the passengers on the road side. No haulage company will abandon a load unless there is no choice.[/p][/quote]I'm pretty sure everyone appreciates that things happen which are outside the driver's control but it is the bus operator's responsibility to ensure passengers are not abandoned in this way. Hardens
  • Score: 11

11:40pm Sun 17 Aug 14

ace reporter says...

Why do you all keep copying the post you are replying to in full? Just go for it and try and express an original opinion. I know most of you who write here are a load of old busybodies with nothing better to do and invariably are UKIP supporters who blame the fact that they are retired and living in a pretty but boring Wiltshire village on the European Commission and Parliament, as they are the cause of all problems in society. Locksmith is only one who makes ant sense...if this happened in London the passengers would lynch the bus driver, it don't happen there there is always a replacement driver to take over so it should certainly not happen in rural areas. The idea that the bus was delayed by traffic is absurd What traffic this is wiltshire. Ps I am certainly NOT a Guts Ache reporter and cannot spell/ well
Why do you all keep copying the post you are replying to in full? Just go for it and try and express an original opinion. I know most of you who write here are a load of old busybodies with nothing better to do and invariably are UKIP supporters who blame the fact that they are retired and living in a pretty but boring Wiltshire village on the European Commission and Parliament, as they are the cause of all problems in society. Locksmith is only one who makes ant sense...if this happened in London the passengers would lynch the bus driver, it don't happen there there is always a replacement driver to take over so it should certainly not happen in rural areas. The idea that the bus was delayed by traffic is absurd What traffic this is wiltshire. Ps I am certainly NOT a Guts Ache reporter and cannot spell/ well ace reporter
  • Score: 0

12:01pm Mon 18 Aug 14

displayed says...

Should this man be employed as a public service driver, he clearly has no duty of care or responsibility towards his passengers..........
...
Should this man be employed as a public service driver, he clearly has no duty of care or responsibility towards his passengers.......... ... displayed
  • Score: -1

12:13pm Mon 18 Aug 14

djqster says...

ace reporter wrote:
Why do you all keep copying the post you are replying to in full? Just go for it and try and express an original opinion. I know most of you who write here are a load of old busybodies with nothing better to do and invariably are UKIP supporters who blame the fact that they are retired and living in a pretty but boring Wiltshire village on the European Commission and Parliament, as they are the cause of all problems in society. Locksmith is only one who makes ant sense...if this happened in London the passengers would lynch the bus driver, it don't happen there there is always a replacement driver to take over so it should certainly not happen in rural areas. The idea that the bus was delayed by traffic is absurd What traffic this is wiltshire. Ps I am certainly NOT a Guts Ache reporter and cannot spell/ well
"Why do you all keep copying the post you are replying to in full? "

Because the crappy comments mechanism won't let you quote selectively.
[quote][p][bold]ace reporter[/bold] wrote: Why do you all keep copying the post you are replying to in full? Just go for it and try and express an original opinion. I know most of you who write here are a load of old busybodies with nothing better to do and invariably are UKIP supporters who blame the fact that they are retired and living in a pretty but boring Wiltshire village on the European Commission and Parliament, as they are the cause of all problems in society. Locksmith is only one who makes ant sense...if this happened in London the passengers would lynch the bus driver, it don't happen there there is always a replacement driver to take over so it should certainly not happen in rural areas. The idea that the bus was delayed by traffic is absurd What traffic this is wiltshire. Ps I am certainly NOT a Guts Ache reporter and cannot spell/ well[/p][/quote]"Why do you all keep copying the post you are replying to in full? " Because the crappy comments mechanism won't let you quote selectively. djqster
  • Score: 5

11:03pm Mon 18 Aug 14

SSmith3 says...

shed wrote:
I think you will find that this hours limit which forces drivers to have to change at Pewsey is yet another bit of EU legislation, not down to Salisbury Reds.
Although Salisbury Reds need to get their act together it seems, by working out where their drivers will be when their time runs out .
How is it the EU's fault the bus company didn't have another bus if making drivers work too long hours? Obviously the company are not employing enough staff. I'm more scared of what the Tories want to do to British people than anything from the EU.
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: I think you will find that this hours limit which forces drivers to have to change at Pewsey is yet another bit of EU legislation, not down to Salisbury Reds. Although Salisbury Reds need to get their act together it seems, by working out where their drivers will be when their time runs out .[/p][/quote]How is it the EU's fault the bus company didn't have another bus if making drivers work too long hours? Obviously the company are not employing enough staff. I'm more scared of what the Tories want to do to British people than anything from the EU. SSmith3
  • Score: 6

1:23am Tue 19 Aug 14

Phorever says...

I've never seen so many clueless comments in one place.
There could be a number of reasons that the bus driver ran out of hours.
The most likely is that they were short staffed that day because of drivers on holiday. And maybe a driver or two phoning in sick.
They had two options.
1. Don't run the bus at all. In which case we would of had a page full of people complaining because the bus service was cancelled.
Or 2. Do the best they could with the resources available to them, and risk upsetting a few people.
They chose 2.
They have a business to run primarily. A bus sat in the yard is not making money.
They may of decided to run the bus with the intention of another driver replacing him at a suitable time. But if that driver got held up, then what can they do?
I expect that the bus company had several contingency plans. Most haulage companies do. But if they all fail, then what's left?
The only other option open to the driver would of been to continue, until he ran out of hours, park the bus and get a taxi home.
Then you lot would of complained about a bus being parked outside your house.

To be honest, I fail to see why this is such a news story. The title should be:
'Driver does his job legally'.
I've never seen so many clueless comments in one place. There could be a number of reasons that the bus driver ran out of hours. The most likely is that they were short staffed that day because of drivers on holiday. And maybe a driver or two phoning in sick. They had two options. 1. Don't run the bus at all. In which case we would of had a page full of people complaining because the bus service was cancelled. Or 2. Do the best they could with the resources available to them, and risk upsetting a few people. They chose 2. They have a business to run primarily. A bus sat in the yard is not making money. They may of decided to run the bus with the intention of another driver replacing him at a suitable time. But if that driver got held up, then what can they do? I expect that the bus company had several contingency plans. Most haulage companies do. But if they all fail, then what's left? The only other option open to the driver would of been to continue, until he ran out of hours, park the bus and get a taxi home. Then you lot would of complained about a bus being parked outside your house. To be honest, I fail to see why this is such a news story. The title should be: 'Driver does his job legally'. Phorever
  • Score: 0

6:07am Tue 19 Aug 14

politepanda says...

Phorever - there COULD be many reasons why the driver couldn't complete his run. It would have been his responsibility to inform his employer where he was and why he couldn't complete the journey. It was then the EMPLOYERS responsibility to ensure that the journey was completed by another driver - what's so difficult to understand??
Why do you seem determined to write off increasing incidents of stranded passengers - some of whom have been deemed to e vulnerable - as no real concern?
You wrote: "I've never seen so many clueless comments in one place."
A number of the worst are your own.
Phorever - there COULD be many reasons why the driver couldn't complete his run. It would have been his responsibility to inform his employer where he was and why he couldn't complete the journey. It was then the EMPLOYERS responsibility to ensure that the journey was completed by another driver - what's so difficult to understand?? Why do you seem determined to write off increasing incidents of stranded passengers - some of whom have been deemed to e vulnerable - as no real concern? You wrote: "I've never seen so many clueless comments in one place." A number of the worst are your own. politepanda
  • Score: 3

10:13pm Tue 19 Aug 14

politepanda says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
politepanda, I am not missing the point. I know what you are saying should happen but in the real world where most of us live life is not perfect and things go wrong. The last time I drove a service bus there wasn't a crystal ball in the cab and us drivers have no idea what will delay us, when or by how much. I will give you a scenario to ponder over. A driver starts a 4 hour round trip on time and proceeds to the terminus arriving 15 minutes late. He now knows that if all is well he will be able to complete the return trip without having to have a break and he has 15 minutes extra. However, on the return trip he is delayed again by 20 minutes. If he does not make up time he will not be able to complete the service within the 4.5 hour limit. The driver loses more time and has to stop.
The company gave the driver an extra half an hour to complete the trip so reasonably allowed for delays, the driver did his best but events conspired against him so what do you suggest be done?
What do you suggest be done?
We don't need to be perfect - just organised. You can't take money for services then simply renege on your provision of the same. The employer has a responsibility - once informed by the driver - to ensure the passengers are met by REPLACEMENT DRIVER who can ensure the passengers can continue their journey with little or no disruption.
Which is what I suggested in my last comment. So I'm not sure why you asked me what should be done. Twice.
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: politepanda, I am not missing the point. I know what you are saying should happen but in the real world where most of us live life is not perfect and things go wrong. The last time I drove a service bus there wasn't a crystal ball in the cab and us drivers have no idea what will delay us, when or by how much. I will give you a scenario to ponder over. A driver starts a 4 hour round trip on time and proceeds to the terminus arriving 15 minutes late. He now knows that if all is well he will be able to complete the return trip without having to have a break and he has 15 minutes extra. However, on the return trip he is delayed again by 20 minutes. If he does not make up time he will not be able to complete the service within the 4.5 hour limit. The driver loses more time and has to stop. The company gave the driver an extra half an hour to complete the trip so reasonably allowed for delays, the driver did his best but events conspired against him so what do you suggest be done? What do you suggest be done?[/p][/quote]We don't need to be perfect - just organised. You can't take money for services then simply renege on your provision of the same. The employer has a responsibility - once informed by the driver - to ensure the passengers are met by REPLACEMENT DRIVER who can ensure the passengers can continue their journey with little or no disruption. Which is what I suggested in my last comment. So I'm not sure why you asked me what should be done. Twice. politepanda
  • Score: 4

11:15pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Phorever says...

politepanda wrote:
Phorever - there COULD be many reasons why the driver couldn't complete his run. It would have been his responsibility to inform his employer where he was and why he couldn't complete the journey. It was then the EMPLOYERS responsibility to ensure that the journey was completed by another driver - what's so difficult to understand??
Why do you seem determined to write off increasing incidents of stranded passengers - some of whom have been deemed to e vulnerable - as no real concern?
You wrote: "I've never seen so many clueless comments in one place."
A number of the worst are your own.
You are obviously completely clueless to the restrictions drivers have to work by. You are ignorant that there is any other issue than the passengers being stranded. Your mind is closed to any explanation.
I will waste no more time here.
[quote][p][bold]politepanda[/bold] wrote: Phorever - there COULD be many reasons why the driver couldn't complete his run. It would have been his responsibility to inform his employer where he was and why he couldn't complete the journey. It was then the EMPLOYERS responsibility to ensure that the journey was completed by another driver - what's so difficult to understand?? Why do you seem determined to write off increasing incidents of stranded passengers - some of whom have been deemed to e vulnerable - as no real concern? You wrote: "I've never seen so many clueless comments in one place." A number of the worst are your own.[/p][/quote]You are obviously completely clueless to the restrictions drivers have to work by. You are ignorant that there is any other issue than the passengers being stranded. Your mind is closed to any explanation. I will waste no more time here. Phorever
  • Score: -3

12:07am Wed 20 Aug 14

Spiral says...

Since when did it become the customer's concerns how the company manages its staff and time? Customers pay for a SERVICE and part of the contract when buying a ticket is the assurance the destination will be reached. To call a customer 'selfish' for expecting to get home, or for their child to reach their destination is as silly as criticising people for expecting their post to arrive rather than be dumped in a bin!

The comments attacking the passengers highlights the problems with the service industry and the downhill spiral of professionalism and integrity!
Since when did it become the customer's concerns how the company manages its staff and time? Customers pay for a SERVICE and part of the contract when buying a ticket is the assurance the destination will be reached. To call a customer 'selfish' for expecting to get home, or for their child to reach their destination is as silly as criticising people for expecting their post to arrive rather than be dumped in a bin! The comments attacking the passengers highlights the problems with the service industry and the downhill spiral of professionalism and integrity! Spiral
  • Score: 6

6:48am Wed 20 Aug 14

Hardens says...

Phorever, anxious not be close minded and to follow your example of considering the opinions of others I read your posts carefully again. So, to get it clear in my mind, you're saying that the lazy driver is at fault & should be sacked, right?
Phorever, anxious not be close minded and to follow your example of considering the opinions of others I read your posts carefully again. So, to get it clear in my mind, you're saying that the lazy driver is at fault & should be sacked, right? Hardens
  • Score: 2

11:19am Wed 20 Aug 14

chrisbizarre says...

Dear o dear politepanda, you seem to have got yourself into a frothing at the mouth situation. I do hope you are enjoying your 15 minutes. In response to your last post I would just like to say that you have not answered my question at all. You have stated that there should be a driver ready to take over when one runs out of hours. How is that driver to get to where he is needed without using either work time or driving time? If you understood the driver rules (which I linked in a previous post) you would know exactly what I was on about. Go away and do some proper research instead of repeating the same mantra of 'The company should do more' You have the attitude of an political party in opposition. Plenty of criticism but no answers to the problem.
Dear o dear politepanda, you seem to have got yourself into a frothing at the mouth situation. I do hope you are enjoying your 15 minutes. In response to your last post I would just like to say that you have not answered my question at all. You have stated that there should be a driver ready to take over when one runs out of hours. How is that driver to get to where he is needed without using either work time or driving time? If you understood the driver rules (which I linked in a previous post) you would know exactly what I was on about. Go away and do some proper research instead of repeating the same mantra of 'The company should do more' You have the attitude of an political party in opposition. Plenty of criticism but no answers to the problem. chrisbizarre
  • Score: -4

5:51pm Wed 20 Aug 14

kimcrawley says...

I bet Perry thinks a privatised unaccountable bus service is just the job and that the majority of passengers are happy to be ripped off and stranded.
I bet Perry thinks a privatised unaccountable bus service is just the job and that the majority of passengers are happy to be ripped off and stranded. kimcrawley
  • Score: 2

7:27pm Wed 20 Aug 14

politepanda says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
Dear o dear politepanda, you seem to have got yourself into a frothing at the mouth situation. I do hope you are enjoying your 15 minutes. In response to your last post I would just like to say that you have not answered my question at all. You have stated that there should be a driver ready to take over when one runs out of hours. How is that driver to get to where he is needed without using either work time or driving time? If you understood the driver rules (which I linked in a previous post) you would know exactly what I was on about. Go away and do some proper research instead of repeating the same mantra of 'The company should do more' You have the attitude of an political party in opposition. Plenty of criticism but no answers to the problem.
Frothing at the mouth??!
So tell me - just WHAT is so difficult - inform a manager you can't continue your journey - inform passengers - manager arrives with replacement driver - passengers continue journey.
(Is that STILL too simple to grasp?)
NONE of the above will cause any driver to "break the rules" - no-one here is asking them to - they're simply asking the COMPANY to take responsibility to ensure the customer gets the journey paid for!
And if THAT is too difficult for the bus company to manage - then I think they may be understaffed.
Or is it now the responsibility of the passengers to ask if the driver believes he's going to get them home before he orders them off the bus??
And Phorever states:
""You are obviously completely clueless to the restrictions drivers have to work by. You are ignorant that there is any other issue than the passengers being stranded. Your mind is closed to any explanation.
I will waste no more time here""
Look again. There is NOTHING stopping the company from resolving the issues WITHOUT forcing drivers to break the regs. YOU appear ignorant to any issue other than driver regs, and YOU appear to have a mind closed to ANY resolution beyond dumping the passengers!
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: Dear o dear politepanda, you seem to have got yourself into a frothing at the mouth situation. I do hope you are enjoying your 15 minutes. In response to your last post I would just like to say that you have not answered my question at all. You have stated that there should be a driver ready to take over when one runs out of hours. How is that driver to get to where he is needed without using either work time or driving time? If you understood the driver rules (which I linked in a previous post) you would know exactly what I was on about. Go away and do some proper research instead of repeating the same mantra of 'The company should do more' You have the attitude of an political party in opposition. Plenty of criticism but no answers to the problem.[/p][/quote]Frothing at the mouth??! So tell me - just WHAT is so difficult - inform a manager you can't continue your journey - inform passengers - manager arrives with replacement driver - passengers continue journey. (Is that STILL too simple to grasp?) NONE of the above will cause any driver to "break the rules" - no-one here is asking them to - they're simply asking the COMPANY to take responsibility to ensure the customer gets the journey paid for! And if THAT is too difficult for the bus company to manage - then I think they may be understaffed. Or is it now the responsibility of the passengers to ask if the driver believes he's going to get them home before he orders them off the bus?? And Phorever states: ""You are obviously completely clueless to the restrictions drivers have to work by. You are ignorant that there is any other issue than the passengers being stranded. Your mind is closed to any explanation. I will waste no more time here"" Look again. There is NOTHING stopping the company from resolving the issues WITHOUT forcing drivers to break the regs. YOU appear ignorant to any issue other than driver regs, and YOU appear to have a mind closed to ANY resolution beyond dumping the passengers! politepanda
  • Score: 5

8:21pm Wed 20 Aug 14

chrisbizarre says...

Calm down dear, no need to shout. Like I told you in a previous post go and do some proper research of the issue and come back when you are much better informed than you currently are. I linked you the info you need and all the answers to the questions you pose in your last post can be found within that 52 page document. Get off your high horse and realise that the bus company and the driver did nothing wrong. When you buy a bus ticket it is a contract that the company will get the passenger to the stated destination. It says nothing about when or indeed how and you will find that if this had have happened on the last bus of the day a taxi would have been provided. The company provided what it had to by making sure the passengers got to their destinations on the next available transport, i.e the next bus. Case closed
Calm down dear, no need to shout. Like I told you in a previous post go and do some proper research of the issue and come back when you are much better informed than you currently are. I linked you the info you need and all the answers to the questions you pose in your last post can be found within that 52 page document. Get off your high horse and realise that the bus company and the driver did nothing wrong. When you buy a bus ticket it is a contract that the company will get the passenger to the stated destination. It says nothing about when or indeed how and you will find that if this had have happened on the last bus of the day a taxi would have been provided. The company provided what it had to by making sure the passengers got to their destinations on the next available transport, i.e the next bus. Case closed chrisbizarre
  • Score: -9

9:18pm Wed 20 Aug 14

kimcrawley says...

chrisbizarre shows us the concept of a service as defined by the tory party, the fact that a number of people are hugely inconvenienced is irrelevant when profit is the motive. To hide behind weasel words in a contract whilst making no attempt to provide the service that people have paid for is a disgrace. The case is not closed. How incompetent are the management of this company ? Do they seriously expect us to believe that the driver began this journey without any knowledge of his available time, furthermore do they normally operate their business without any contingency plans ? To call this a service is a joke, as with our council cabinet the only service they are interested in is their own bank accounts.
chrisbizarre shows us the concept of a service as defined by the tory party, the fact that a number of people are hugely inconvenienced is irrelevant when profit is the motive. To hide behind weasel words in a contract whilst making no attempt to provide the service that people have paid for is a disgrace. The case is not closed. How incompetent are the management of this company ? Do they seriously expect us to believe that the driver began this journey without any knowledge of his available time, furthermore do they normally operate their business without any contingency plans ? To call this a service is a joke, as with our council cabinet the only service they are interested in is their own bank accounts. kimcrawley
  • Score: 5

10:14pm Wed 20 Aug 14

politepanda says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
Calm down dear, no need to shout. Like I told you in a previous post go and do some proper research of the issue and come back when you are much better informed than you currently are. I linked you the info you need and all the answers to the questions you pose in your last post can be found within that 52 page document. Get off your high horse and realise that the bus company and the driver did nothing wrong. When you buy a bus ticket it is a contract that the company will get the passenger to the stated destination. It says nothing about when or indeed how and you will find that if this had have happened on the last bus of the day a taxi would have been provided. The company provided what it had to by making sure the passengers got to their destinations on the next available transport, i.e the next bus. Case closed
Who's shouting??
Why do I need to read a 52 page document to find out why the company couldn't be organised enough to allow the passengers to continue the journey they'd paid for??
And your statement that the company has the right to get the passengers from a to b in any time frame it chooses - in any way it sees fit - STILL doesn't make providing a replacement driver any more difficult.
The company COULD have enabled the customers to continue their journey uninterrupted with little effort.
They decided they didn't have to.
You're simply making the case for the company less acceptable, you really aren't the best advert for this particular company. Case closed.
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: Calm down dear, no need to shout. Like I told you in a previous post go and do some proper research of the issue and come back when you are much better informed than you currently are. I linked you the info you need and all the answers to the questions you pose in your last post can be found within that 52 page document. Get off your high horse and realise that the bus company and the driver did nothing wrong. When you buy a bus ticket it is a contract that the company will get the passenger to the stated destination. It says nothing about when or indeed how and you will find that if this had have happened on the last bus of the day a taxi would have been provided. The company provided what it had to by making sure the passengers got to their destinations on the next available transport, i.e the next bus. Case closed[/p][/quote]Who's shouting?? Why do I need to read a 52 page document to find out why the company couldn't be organised enough to allow the passengers to continue the journey they'd paid for?? And your statement that the company has the right to get the passengers from a to b in any time frame it chooses - in any way it sees fit - STILL doesn't make providing a replacement driver any more difficult. The company COULD have enabled the customers to continue their journey uninterrupted with little effort. They decided they didn't have to. You're simply making the case for the company less acceptable, you really aren't the best advert for this particular company. Case closed. politepanda
  • Score: 8

11:18am Thu 21 Aug 14

Harry_Collier says...

Aircraft crew have very strict national and international regulations regarding hours on duty. But you don't find aircraft suddenly diverting to a nearby airport and off-loading passengers because the captain is out of hours. All it takes is a little management and organisation.
Aircraft crew have very strict national and international regulations regarding hours on duty. But you don't find aircraft suddenly diverting to a nearby airport and off-loading passengers because the captain is out of hours. All it takes is a little management and organisation. Harry_Collier
  • Score: 5

11:51am Thu 21 Aug 14

djqster says...

Harry_Collier wrote:
Aircraft crew have very strict national and international regulations regarding hours on duty. But you don't find aircraft suddenly diverting to a nearby airport and off-loading passengers because the captain is out of hours. All it takes is a little management and organisation.
We're a bit away from buses here, but the worst air crash in history (a collision between two 747's) happened at least in part because a pilot was in a rush to set off before he ran out of hours.
[quote][p][bold]Harry_Collier[/bold] wrote: Aircraft crew have very strict national and international regulations regarding hours on duty. But you don't find aircraft suddenly diverting to a nearby airport and off-loading passengers because the captain is out of hours. All it takes is a little management and organisation.[/p][/quote]We're a bit away from buses here, but the worst air crash in history (a collision between two 747's) happened at least in part because a pilot was in a rush to set off before he ran out of hours. djqster
  • Score: -4

11:47am Fri 22 Aug 14

allthedecentnameshavegone says...

PolitePanda is absolutely correct that this is simple management failing by both the driver and his employer. It is not the regulations covering professional drivers that is the problem, it is the bus company's failure to properly manage its fleet and its staff in accordance with the regulations that is the problem.

There is no excuse for abandoning passengers mid-way through a journey.
PolitePanda is absolutely correct that this is simple management failing by both the driver and his employer. It is not the regulations covering professional drivers that is the problem, it is the bus company's failure to properly manage its fleet and its staff in accordance with the regulations that is the problem. There is no excuse for abandoning passengers mid-way through a journey. allthedecentnameshavegone
  • Score: 2

11:44am Fri 5 Sep 14

ohgreg says...

chrisbizarre wrote:
Calm down dear, no need to shout. Like I told you in a previous post go and do some proper research of the issue and come back when you are much better informed than you currently are. I linked you the info you need and all the answers to the questions you pose in your last post can be found within that 52 page document. Get off your high horse and realise that the bus company and the driver did nothing wrong. When you buy a bus ticket it is a contract that the company will get the passenger to the stated destination. It says nothing about when or indeed how and you will find that if this had have happened on the last bus of the day a taxi would have been provided. The company provided what it had to by making sure the passengers got to their destinations on the next available transport, i.e the next bus. Case closed
I am not from this area and came across this web-page as a result of searching for more information following an incident last night where a bus company (Arriva) left me stranded miles from my home on a rough industrial estate with no other means of transport, having misinformed me about their connecting services (in effect failing to provide the last service as offered). I was forced to walk along an unlit high speed bypass with no pavement, then along unlit rough footpaths. I had only a couple of pounds and no mobile credit. The company refused to help, the service number closed before I had chance to make a call, and the driver of the final service was sarcastic and unsympathetic, eventually calling me a liar about being misinformed by another driver about bus times. I begged for help to get home (I also have a disability causing me moving difficulties), but the driver became aggressive and ejected me from the bus claiming that it wasn't his problem or responsibility. Chrisbizarre can you please explain therefore why I was not offered a taxi as you claim? And why my ticket to ride as arranged with the company was not treated as a contract to deliver me to my destination, and duly completed? Is that a particular rule, practice or law that does not apply to the North of Wales and North-West England but does to your area? Also as you seem to be such an expert on the legal rights and responsibilities of bus operators and passengers please could you advise me as to my next steps to seek redress and bring Arriva to task for negligence in their responsibilities?
[quote][p][bold]chrisbizarre[/bold] wrote: Calm down dear, no need to shout. Like I told you in a previous post go and do some proper research of the issue and come back when you are much better informed than you currently are. I linked you the info you need and all the answers to the questions you pose in your last post can be found within that 52 page document. Get off your high horse and realise that the bus company and the driver did nothing wrong. When you buy a bus ticket it is a contract that the company will get the passenger to the stated destination. It says nothing about when or indeed how and you will find that if this had have happened on the last bus of the day a taxi would have been provided. The company provided what it had to by making sure the passengers got to their destinations on the next available transport, i.e the next bus. Case closed[/p][/quote]I am not from this area and came across this web-page as a result of searching for more information following an incident last night where a bus company (Arriva) left me stranded miles from my home on a rough industrial estate with no other means of transport, having misinformed me about their connecting services (in effect failing to provide the last service as offered). I was forced to walk along an unlit high speed bypass with no pavement, then along unlit rough footpaths. I had only a couple of pounds and no mobile credit. The company refused to help, the service number closed before I had chance to make a call, and the driver of the final service was sarcastic and unsympathetic, eventually calling me a liar about being misinformed by another driver about bus times. I begged for help to get home (I also have a disability causing me moving difficulties), but the driver became aggressive and ejected me from the bus claiming that it wasn't his problem or responsibility. Chrisbizarre can you please explain therefore why I was not offered a taxi as you claim? And why my ticket to ride as arranged with the company was not treated as a contract to deliver me to my destination, and duly completed? Is that a particular rule, practice or law that does not apply to the North of Wales and North-West England but does to your area? Also as you seem to be such an expert on the legal rights and responsibilities of bus operators and passengers please could you advise me as to my next steps to seek redress and bring Arriva to task for negligence in their responsibilities? ohgreg
  • Score: 0

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