I believe that this decision is a good compromise and hopefully will mean that this subject will be allowed to be closed. The issue in Calne is the "travellers site" and peoples efforts should be focused on that!

P Dolman wrote:
I believe that this decision is a good compromise and hopefully will mean that this subject will be allowed to be closed. The issue in Calne is the "travellers site" and peoples efforts should be focused on that!

The statement above is factually incorrect, the Council voted against the flag, then for the flag, then against the flag. The headline of another report on this subject was Carry on up the Flagpole which remains very apt.

P.Dolman believes that this decision is a good compromise. Isn’t a compromise generally reached by mutual agreement to meet at some middle ground? Have the electorate who signed the petitions agreed to meet at some middle ground? I think not. Have the Councillors chosen to vote against the express wishes of those people and just give them less than they are asking for? I think so.

You hope that this subject will be allowed to be closed, don’t build your hopes up…

The Electorate signed petitions asking their Ward Councillors to represent THEIR views to fly the flag 365 days in support of our serving armed forces personnel, and as a mark of repect for our brave dead and their families. Wootton Bassett, Melksham and other Councils fly the Union Flag daily. Having spoken to the Melksham Town Mayor on Saturday evening, he stated that he had been asked to show support and fly the flag. It was put before Melksham Town Councillors and agreed........no problem!
Having attended the Calne Town Council Meeting last Thursday, the general performance and rudeness of all but the 6 Councillors who voted for flying the Flag daily, will not go unoticed. Those who voted against, and it has been recorded, will be 'silly and rediculous'(words used by those Councillors regarding the motion), to expect any votes next year from their Electorate! After all, according to them, we are wasting their time on 'trivial matters'. Laying one's Life on the line is not 'Trivial'but courageous, and not to be ignored.

I was in attendance at the public part of Monday's meeting and listened intently to Mr Mayo's presntation. It was concise, well reasoned and liberally sprinkled with well researched examples to re-inforce his cost claims and Calne residents polls.
Some councillors made similar well reasoned statements, .... others less so. Doubt was cast (rather impolitely)on the accuracy of the financial figures presented by Mr Mayo but no reasonable counter figures were produced. The town council had been offered up to 5 Union Flags to start them off so that cost would have been eliminated. They have been offered the financing of halyardsand even a lick of paint for the flagpole.

One councillor must be one the very few ex-serviceman who can say he did not think of the flag during his service. I only served for 30 years but I seem to recall proudly swearing allegiance to Her Majesty in front it and on occasions very happy to see it fluttering from the aerial of a Land Rover.

Yes Mr. You obviously have an issue with this but I fail to see what it is. Care to explain?

I was amazed to learn that councillors were unaware of the wording of the signature collecting questionnaire as this was the exact same wording as the proposal put forward and voted on at the Parish meeting a few weeks before. It is recorded in the minutes of that meeting. Do these councillors arrive at a meeting to vote on a proposal which they were all aware was on the agenda, fully unbriefed? Not good enough councillors! !

Councillors, Please do not allow the Union Flag be dragged through the politcal mire that some seem to want. IT, if not you, are worth more than that.

Some advised, in their arrogance, that they had not been contacted by the people they represent. At that moment I realised I didn't even know who my local councillor was........but I do now.

Sorry Meeting on Thursday not Monday. MY Error!

P Dolman wrote:
I believe that this decision is a good compromise and hopefully will mean that this subject will be allowed to be closed. The issue in Calne is the "travellers site" and peoples efforts should be focused on that!

FOR ONCE I AGREE WITH PETER.
ITS TIME TO PUT THE FLAG TO ONE SIDE FOR A WHILE.
IT IS TIME TO FIGHT AGAINST THE PROPOSED GYPSIE SITES WHAT THEY HAVE PLANNED IN CALNE.

WWW.CALNETALK.COM

Spooks – the proposed gipsy site is an issue that I also find important and there are other community issues that I spend my time on too. If I want to spread my time to cover the things that I feel are important then I will. I will also decide for myself which (if any) I put to one side to focus on another. The crux of this issue is that the councillors are not representing their electorate. The electorate have not been represented over the flag so what makes you think they will be represented over the gipsy site?

Harris wrote:
Spooks – the proposed gipsy site is an issue that I also find important and there are other community issues that I spend my time on too. If I want to spread my time to cover the things that I feel are important then I will. I will also decide for myself which (if any) I put to one side to focus on another. The crux of this issue is that the councillors are not representing their electorate. The electorate have not been represented over the flag so what makes you think they will be represented over the gipsy site?

Harris all i am saying is that the decision regarding the flag has been made.like it or not there is nothing we can do untill it is time for it to come up again at the council.
The gypsie sites are a real thret NOW we are in a position to stop this.

WWW.CALNETALK.COM

Spooks I’m on your side. But I maintain that the crux of this issue is that a significant number of Calne’s Town Councillors are failing to represent their electorate. Last Thursday the British Legion presented a Council meeting with a petition that represented over 5% of the people in Calne. Almost 100% of those people asked had signed the petition. The response from the Councillors was to rubbish the petition by saying that the people of Calne could be persuaded to sign anything and that we would sign anything to get someone of our doorsteps. They think we’re stupid! They won’t listen to us over the flag so what makes you think they will listen to us over anything else?

Spooks – might I add that I do sincerely hope that we are much more successful in resolving the proposed gipsy site issue than we have been to date with the flag.

The current council have voted to prolong their period of office to 6 years. While a decision has yet to be made it is likely that elections for the town council will not held until 2013. I wonder how many of the voting public will remember the issue of the "FLAG". I also wonder how many of the protaganists will still live in the area?

Harris wrote:
Spooks I’m on your side. But I maintain that the crux of this issue is that a significant number of Calne’s Town Councillors are failing to represent their electorate. Last Thursday the British Legion presented a Council meeting with a petition that represented over 5% of the people in Calne. Almost 100% of those people asked had signed the petition. The response from the Councillors was to rubbish the petition by saying that the people of Calne could be persuaded to sign anything and that we would sign anything to get someone of our doorsteps. They think we’re stupid! They won’t listen to us over the flag so what makes you think they will listen to us over anything else?

If thats the councill attitude then it is totaly shocking and disgusting.We the people of calne voted them in to do the best for calne.
boy were we wrong.
as for the gypsie site i do hope we are succesfull in stopping it.From what i know most of the towns councils do not want it either.if you look at where the council live quite a few live on oxford road.where the proposed site is.
calne people are not stupid .
the one thing i will say about calne is that they are a bit slow off there mark and should stand up more for what they belive in .insted of moaning about it.
Although i dont agree with peter on a lot of issues i have a huge respect for him and what he did over the liesure centre.
www.calnetalk.com

P Dolman – having just checked the frequency with which you keep changing your position over the flag issue, I want to let you know that you are due to change your mind again very soon so that you can prepare yourself for it…

Spooks – I reflected on this issue after my last post and did end up hoping that perhaps one or more of our councillors may be affected enough by the Gipsy issue to want to do something about it. If they are not then current experience demonstrates that they unlikely to listen to us their electorate.

P Dolman wrote:
The current council have voted to prolong their period of office to 6 years. While a decision has yet to be made it is likely that elections for the town council will not held until 2013. I wonder how many of the voting public will remember the issue of the "FLAG". I also wonder how many of the protaganists will still live in the area?

Mr Dolman, what makes you believe that:
1)The "flag issue" will not have been resolved IAW the wishes of the people of Calne before 2013?

2) The people of Calne will not remember it when your council seat comes up for refilling ?

3)The "Protaganists" (sic) will not be living in the area in 2013 ?

I would not presume to answer these questions for you but they are not rhetorical and are deserving of a reply.

Your tone underlines the very points made by Harris about councillors not even listening to never mind, reflecting the wishes of the electorate. Maybe they will act as words of warning to Spooks about the way in which his concerns will be dealt with by the unlistening members of the Council. (To be fair some of our councillors did listen and understand)

Spooks, Please learn from the foregoing and ensure that your council representative is in no doubt as to the strength of feeling among your supporters. (Write to them individually and in a professional manner).
Collect collect signatures on "Properly worded" public petitions.
The words may form a motion on which councillors may vote and then claim ignorance of that very same wording. Be prepared to present them to individual councillors. Get their reactions before any meeting so that you can identify the vacillators.

People of Calne take note of Mr Dolman's words and what they appear to mean. (Subject to Mr Dolman's clarification).

With regard to to the petition for the gypsie camps there is one now in motion.
look at www.calnetalk.com for more details.

Dear Mr Attrebates I dont wish to be critical but it seems you think that I am a councillor. That is not the case I did not get re-elected in the elections of May 2007.
The issue of the flag has been debated on 3 seperate occassions at town council level and on each accassion when a vote was taken the decision was not to fly the flag on a permanent basis. A decision I agree with. I would like to see the flag flown on appropriate occassions and the repadriation of service men is one such occassion.
The much quoted issue of cost is very much a red herring (as far as I can recall when attending council meetings as a member of the public it was not part of the decision making).
The reality unfortunately is once you have voted in a councillor they can vote how they like (and often they do) irrespective of individual electors wishes. There was a petition of some several thousand of the towns residents not to build a car park behind the old library but they still went ahead and did it.
The electorate get the standard of councillors it votes for. I would like the voters to get to know their councillors and what they really stand for and look at their history and try to find out what if anything they have really done for this town. I am afraid for some of them its not a lot!

My apologies to you Mr Dolman. I WAS under the impression that you were a councillor.

At the parish meeting it was agreed to fly the flag and for one day it was flown (See Harris entry (9th May). Then, as I understand it, the flag was removed as the council were not obliged to act on a parish recommendation or vote.

In my naiviety, I understood from my attendance at the public parts of the meeting that cost was a major consideration in the rejection of the motion to fly every day.

Mr Mayo would not have researched and refuted the costs if it had not been given as a reason for non flying.

Members of the public would not have donated the 5 Union Flags if they were not under the impression that cost WAS a major factor.

Red Herring it most certainly was. One laid to divert attention from ..... What?

As a man who clearly understands these things far more than I, what would you identify as the REAL reasons for not flying ?

Sorry to break the silent anticipation but I can’t hold my excitement any longer. Come on Guru Dolman put us all out of our ignorance and give us the benefit of your great wisdom. Or have you (as I predicted above) changed your position on this issue back to neutral again?

Sorry Harris old man my position has always been the same in so far as it is up to the council to decide and they have on 3 seperate occassions. others at the annual meeting and not just myself being ex councillors would have (or should have been aware) that any decision taken is not binding on the council. at the meeting when this topic was 1st discussed cost was mentioned but dismissed. the reason why it was turned down was that a majority of councillors then felt that to fly the flag every day would trivialise it. this position for the majority of councillors appears not to have changed despite the lobbying and verbal attacks on individuals.
It may well have been a different result if councillors had been approached in more friendlier manor, but who knows.
If I was a councillor I would have voted not to fly every day but on the descretion of the Mayor.

Another question then…
Just over a week ago, the British Legion presented the results of an on-going petition that continued to confirm that around 98% of people in Calne want the Union Flag flown daily from the Town Hall to show the Town’s support for our troops overseas. Councillor Hill illustrated his personal (and quite opposite) views and with a majority of the Town Council voted not to do as the electorate are clearly asking, thus their vote clearly did not represent Calne’s electorate .
At the gipsy site meeting, Councillor Hill told the packed room that he and the other Councillors bent over backwards to represent Calne’s electorate .
How can the statement he made at the gipsy site meeting be reconciled with his and other Councillors very recent past performance (as exampled above)?

Perhaps a slightly more disturbing issue is that the council has decided to extend it term in office, it seems rather odd in a democracy that councillors can just add time themselves to the length of time they will stay in office, this being the case no wonder they take no notice what the electorate think

mr dolman your position does keep changing. one minute you are against the flag then you are neutral then against it again. or were you just tring to mislead to gain some advantage? perhaps thats just the ex -consillor in you!